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The Economy

Discussion in 'Sports and News' started by TigerVols, May 14, 2020.

  1. Azrael

    Azrael Well-Known Member

    There's a longstanding climate / environmental cost to low prices here, too.

    Awash in Asphalt, Cities Rethink Their Parking Needs


    https://grist.org/business-technolo...walmarts-biggest-climate-impact-goes-ignored/

    Yes, Even Walmart Wants to Build Smaller Parking Lots

    https://environmentamerica.org/mary...fs-and-parking-lots-to-generate-solar-energy/

    WAL-MART II Clean Water Act Settlement | US EPA

    Wal-Mart has agreed to pay $3.1 million civil penalty and reduce storm water runoff at its sites by instituting better control measures. Storm water runoff is one of the most significant sources of water pollution in the nation, comparable to contamination from industrial and sewage sources. This settlement sets a very high bar for regulation of this pervasive problem.
     
    Last edited: Mar 7, 2023
  2. dixiehack

    dixiehack Well-Known Member

    They also get to buy stock in the company, which is not for sale to the general public.
     
  3. The Big Ragu

    The Big Ragu Moderator Staff Member

    Because it's not publicly traded, the stock price is determined by the board of directors, not by a market via price discovery. When you want to sell your stock (or you are forced to, because I believe they make employees sell if they leave their job) you get whatever THEY have determined to be the value of it. It's not a liquid market of buyers and sellers, which is the downside. So the price they give you could be more, less or around a more objective value. You have no control over it.

    I don't know the ins and outs of how Publix runs that stock purchase program. To the exent they actually give employees shares rather than making them purchase them (through a retirement plan?), I guess it is a freebie. ... although, I'd really just consider it compensation in lieu of cash, and the cash would be more value to me if I had the choice. Before actually ponying up money to buy shares, I would be at least slightly suspicious of something whose value when / if I want to sell it is being determined that way.
     
  4. exmediahack

    exmediahack Well-Known Member

    One idea... and, please, shoot holes in it.

    Restaurants/warehouses/retail are many other part-time gigs that pay 15-20 hours a week are begging workers.

    If someone already works full-time (40+ hours) and takes on a second job, why not make that second job without income tax at state/federal for the first $20,000? That would free up more people (potentially earners already in higher tax brackets) who don't do it because of the taxes and also help these businesses - possibly - get a higher caliber of worker.
     
  5. The Big Ragu

    The Big Ragu Moderator Staff Member

    My main source of income gets paid to me from an S Corp that I own. I know the first thing I'd do if they convoluted the tax code with something like that is I'd give myself a part-time job where I earn $20,000 of my income tax free through a different company. Can I do it multiple times with multiple part-time jobs?
     
    Last edited: Mar 8, 2023
    Azrael likes this.
  6. Azrael

    Azrael Well-Known Member

    You and I are outliers here.

    I think you'd have to limit self-employment and incorporated small businesses in @exmediahack's program.
     
  7. Azrael

    Azrael Well-Known Member

    Here's an even better idea:

    Pay a living wage for every job.
     
    2muchcoffeeman likes this.
  8. BTExpress

    BTExpress Well-Known Member

    What does that mean for, say, the Walmart greeter in Dothan, Ala., vs. the Walmart greeter in Mountain View, Calif.?
     
    Azrael likes this.
  9. Azrael

    Azrael Well-Known Member

    Presumably the greeter in Mountain View would earn more - proportional to the difference in cost of living.

    Employers already account wage differentials based on employee location.
     
  10. BTExpress

    BTExpress Well-Known Member

    They do to some degree, but assuming the greeter in Dothan is making $25,000 --- borderline livable for one person --- the one in Mountain View would need to make $60,000. I'm not sure Walmart's wages --- or many retail companies' --- are quite that flexible across the country for the unskilled.
     
    2muchcoffeeman and Azrael like this.
  11. The Big Ragu

    The Big Ragu Moderator Staff Member

    Wal-Mart pays precisely what it needs to pay to attract the workers it needs. Through coercion, you might be able to take money from Wal-Mart's owners and effectively redistribute it.

    But that is Wal-Mart, which has scale. And that is only if you don't get what is actually predictable, Wal-Mart ramping up a move to automate to get rid of as many workers as possible (because the investment expense to do it will look way more attractive).

    The major effect will be that every small business -- which collectively employ way more people than Wal-Mart -- will be disadvantaged by what you want. You are advocating for a price floor (in the labor market). ... and despite the magical thinking of some people that defies all reality, price floors create shortages (it's as immutable as Newton's laws). ... in the case of this one, it will take people who have jobs and want jobs. ... and make it so they don't have jobs.

    That is why the real cost of that "living wage" is "no wage" for a segment of people who used to have jobs.

    How about people stop trying to design things they really don't understand? The zillions of little things like this that have already infected the country over the last several decades are a huge part of the reason things are getting worse for a lot of people, even as the arsonists ride in on the fire truck over and over again promising new ways to put out the fires they set in the first place.

    What we need is voluntary exchange, not coercion. People can decide for themselves whether working for Wal-Mart (or anyone else) is to their benefit. If it's not or there are better options out there for Wal-Mart's workers, presumably Wal-Mart will either need to make its pay more competitive, or if it can't do that in a profitable way, it won't be able to operate.
     
    Last edited: Mar 8, 2023
    justgladtobehere and Azrael like this.
  12. Azrael

    Azrael Well-Known Member


    I think the greeter example is a tough one to compare, if only because most greeters are retirees, I think.

    So when you say "living wage" in each case, maybe we'd need to consider the Social Security they're already receiving.

    The biggest bite of that differential of course is housing.

    So we have to look at ways to reimagine affordable housing.
     
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