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The Economy

Discussion in 'Sports and News' started by TigerVols, May 14, 2020.

  1. tea and ease

    tea and ease Well-Known Member

    My pension is $193.00 /month. Five years vested. No one advised me so many years ago to keep working that pension job. Such a fool I was, to not understand. Let me be your cautionary tale.
     
    OscarMadison and Neutral Corner like this.
  2. Azrael

    Azrael Well-Known Member

    One could also pour all that free money . . . back into the business.

    In order to, you know, build the business.
     
  3. The Big Ragu

    The Big Ragu Moderator Staff Member

    That is just not as lucrative in the environment of malinvestment masquerading as economic growth that we are in. When debt is essentially driving asset values higher, not actual consumer demand-driven growth, there is absolutely no incentive to invest. In fact, what central banks have been doing is stifling to investment. When they price fix interest rates and do large-scale asset purchases, what they are doing is rewarding debtors at the expense of savers. Savings are what funds healthy investment. They have choked off that kind of investment in this country over the last few decades by killing savings to build a massive debt bubble.

    Take us out of the private equity conversation. ... to what happened during the era of quantitative easing; companies borrowing a shit ton of money and rather than doing capital expenditures with that money, buying back their stock to push the price up, which made the company's owners richer.

    The reason for this was simply that nobody is going to build a new factory or try to grow a business through investment when the demand for what that new factory is going to produce isn't going to be realized. Outside of some technology companies that have grown, that has been the reality facing roughly 90 percent of businesses. It's what private equity has fed on. You had all of this liquidity being injected into the economy through the monetary shenanigins being filtered through our banking system. ... and it was essentially being funelled into the pockets of people who had capital already. ... to use it to drive up asset prices of things they could invest in even higher so they could get richer. ... Companies that were essentially a business plan, and were burning through cash and losing money, were getting more and more valuable against all reason. That is because real growth is a function of supply meeting demand, not the fantasy that supply creates demand. And the beneficiaries of that "stimulus" know that, even if some PhD's trying to design things they don't even understand don't.

    Meanwhile, the vast majority of people in this country have been stagnating and have been either struggling to make ends meet or have been becoming more and more dependent on government welfare programs, which have taken over more of our economy. Those people were unable provide the incremental demand to buy all the goods and services that the investment you are talking about would have produced. Which is why you get logical outcomes from the phony "stimulus" we are talking about. ... malinvestment on the back of a lot of financial engineering that not only widens the wealth disparity but hurts us economically in the long run because you are drawing capital away from potentially productive uses for wasteful uses.

    As an aside. ... For about 10 years, they were buying up debt to the tune of trillions of dollars, distorting our debt markets in order to suppress interest rates. It was supposedly stimulative. ... but because of the mechanism of how it was being deployed (essentially making the rich richer), the monetary inflation was showing up way more in asset price bubbles than in consumer prices. That mix changed a lot during the pandemic, because they not only went full-out reckless in monetizing debt, at the same time our lawmakers in their clueless wisdom started helicopter dropping money all over the economy, so some reached the pockets of Joe Q. Sixpack. And that was whey you saw consumer price inflation take off on the back of that liquidity tsunami. That did boost demand and you saw companies, for example, start hiring like mad to meet that uptick in demand. But it is proving fleeting. Many have been laying off those workers and even shutting down plants. The unfortunate thing is that now you have the competing force of a debt bomb slowly detonating causing some tremors in the economy, which is going to undo that brief demand sugar high. But we are being left with that sticky consumer price inflation. i.e. -- we are going to walk out of this with stagflation.

    I really wish we would stop trying to engineer things and let price discovery -- people making decisions for themselves -- guide things. We are so much worse off for the insanity that people have given into.
     
    Last edited: Jun 16, 2023
    Azrael likes this.
  4. Azrael

    Azrael Well-Known Member

    Funny to me that when corporations use "free money" to pay themselves, we think of it as good business sense.

    When individuals do it, we condemn it as a failure of character.
     
  5. Big Circus

    Big Circus Well-Known Member

  6. The Big Ragu

    The Big Ragu Moderator Staff Member

    I dunno. "Good business sense," isn't really what I think of. I constantly use words like malinvestment, misallocation, unproductive use of capital, etc.
     
  7. wicked

    wicked Well-Known Member

    Took a job a few years ago with a pension plan. It’s not a great one and I got a late start in it, but it’s something. Even better is that I’m still paying into SS, so that won’t get whacked. (My mom got her SS whacked because she worked most of her life for the city schools, and any SS she earned outside of there got majorly hit because she never paid into SS while a city worker.)
     
  8. BTExpress

    BTExpress Well-Known Member

    If the paperwork ever arrives (it supposedly was sent out 9 days ago), my pension will start in September. It'll be about $670/month. Which I guess isn't too bad since Tribune killed it in lieu of an ESOP plan 5 years after I started in 1986. Good hunk of my 401(k) is thanks to the ESOP plan --- and Sam Zell overpaying for my shares in 2007.
     
  9. tea and ease

    tea and ease Well-Known Member

    I can only say WTF?
     
  10. Neutral Corner

    Neutral Corner Well-Known Member

    Amen to that WTF. Jaysus.

    My wife worked for UAB for 29 years. She would have made more money in the private sector, but we'd both had multiple companies go out of business under us, or the company would get bought out by a big corporation and the local branch closed, etc. We knew that UAB wasn't going to go out of business and the benefits were rock solid. So she paid for 29 years into the State Teacher's Retirement Fund, and now she has a monthly that's pretty substantial. We still get our health insurance through that group, much better coverage at a lower price than we'd ever find on our own. Put that with two social security checks and a paid for home and we're fairly stable.

    We're incredibly thankful about how it worked out. So few people even get a chance at a true pension plan anymore.
     
  11. wicked

    wicked Well-Known Member

    Something about double-dipping, especially when she took my dad's SS. The rule is pretty ironclad from what I read.
     
  12. swingline

    swingline Well-Known Member

    I'm going to get about $125 a month from the Guild. I reckon that's better than nothing.
     
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