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Climate Change? Nahhh ...

Discussion in 'Sports and News' started by Riptide, Oct 23, 2015.

  1. The Big Ragu

    The Big Ragu Moderator Staff Member

    Welcome to reality.

    There are no energy sources known to mankind that are as cheap and as abundant and reliable.

    It's not as if finding alternatives isn't the holy grail that offers riches to anyone who can find them. The global resources that are going into trying to find alternatives -- precisely because of the focus on climate change -- has been huge, drawing that money away from other uses.

    Someone posted something a while back on this thread about how wind and solar are providing more energy in this country than coal, and I think the assumption by people was that "policy" was somehow at work.

    When the reality was more about natural gas having become cheaper than coal to fire power plants. That is what this is about. By and large people want energy. The "realistic" option for the vast majority of those people is what gives them that energy abundantly enough and the cheapest. If people feel that the cheapest energy is so destructive to the planet at this point that it should be outlawed, then the conversation isn't about what the realistic option is that is just as good. It's "this is how much more it is going to cost, these are the limitations we'll have to deal with, and this is what it means for the standard of living you have come to enjoy."
     
    Last edited: Jun 21, 2023
    Batman likes this.
  2. Inky_Wretch

    Inky_Wretch Well-Known Member

    The problem isn't that it's cheap, abundant and reliable. It's that we engineered our entire society around it being cheap, abundant and reliable.

    Auto manufacturers make SUVs and trucks bigger and bigger - so that in 2024 a new one gets the same gas mileage as my 2006 Jeep TJ (and less than my 2004 Toyota Tacoma). We build sprawling cities with very limited public transportation systems - if at all. We don't even provide good cycling or walking infrastructure in most of the country. Aside from a few major metro areas, if you try to live in the USA without a personal vehicle you are screwed.

    I guess that was OK when gas was $1 per gallon or less. But at $3.09 (here), that doesn't make much sense.
     
  3. The Big Ragu

    The Big Ragu Moderator Staff Member

    People choose to buy those huge SUVs and trucks. Auto manufacturers are responding to demand. Supply doesn't dictate that demand. If people wanted mopeds, they'd produce mopeds. And with gas at $3.50 a gallon, people are still buying big SUVs and pick up trucks. I'd put their actual decisions ahead of random subjective opinions about what makes sense for them. Because other people know what gives them utility better than you or I do.

    Again, if the message is that we can't have huge SUVs and trucks because they are doing harm to the planet. ... making auto manufacturers a boogie man sits better than, "When you buy that huge pick up truck, you are destroying the planet."

    The reason we haven't chosen to spend a lot of money societally building extensive (and expensive) public transportation systems isn't that someone didn't centrally plan the world the right way. It's simply because people want their own vehicles. Their lives are better with their own cars. Relying on public transportion may be ecologically better (and that should be addressed honestly, too, as to how much ecologically better it realistically is), but it comes with a monetary cost, a time cost and a convenience cost that most people with their own cars don't embrace. That is the reason they choose to have their own cars and not fund sprawling mass transit systems (that would come at the expense of those personal vehicles).

    It's OK to just talk about the decisions most people make as, "You are destroying the planet when you buy that car. It may be more convenient, it may be cheaper, it may be more expedient today, but we are creating a long-term and irreversible cost with the decisions we're collectively making."
     
    Liut and Batman like this.
  4. BTExpress

    BTExpress Well-Known Member

    That's kind of what happens when you go all manifest destiny and from sea to shining sea. You have 3.6 million square miles to cover, much of it in places where public transportation makes little sense.
     
    Liut and Batman like this.
  5. Spartan Squad

    Spartan Squad Well-Known Member

    Big oil—which has known about its effects on climate change for decades but suppressed the science and successfully lobbied politicians to reduce measures against them in ways the cigarette companies could only dream—provide a product that effective buys.

    People are so convinced by the rhetoric, efforts to change have been suppressed. And now people want big, gas guzzling vehicles and pickups as a symbol of you can’t tell me what to do.
     
    Driftwood likes this.
  6. Spartan Squad

    Spartan Squad Well-Known Member

    All done before cars, BTW.
     
  7. The Big Ragu

    The Big Ragu Moderator Staff Member

    People have been inundated with information about climate change. Globally, they are using more fossil fuel energy than ever.
     
    Liut likes this.
  8. BTExpress

    BTExpress Well-Known Member

    Absolutely.

    Can't wait for my five-month journey to Las Vegas later this summer. Followed by my five-month journey back home.

    Better check on how much vacation time I have left this year.

    [​IMG]
     
    Liut likes this.
  9. Spartan Squad

    Spartan Squad Well-Known Member

    And the climate denialism has been equally if more pronounced. Add in developing nations trying to play catch up because it’s how Europe and the US did it, of course we’re using more. But the fact developing nations don’t have an alternative says a lot.
     
  10. Azrael

    Azrael Well-Known Member

    and yet we built all those railroads
     
  11. The Big Ragu

    The Big Ragu Moderator Staff Member

    What exactly does it say to you?
     
  12. Spartan Squad

    Spartan Squad Well-Known Member

    Just saying we didn’t go sea to sea because of cars. Just as Russia didn’t go Urals to Bering because of the horseless carriage. Just made it more convenient. Just wish we had an alternative to using a car. I’ll wait while big oil gets on a petroleum alternative.
     
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