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Climate Change? Nahhh ...

Discussion in 'Sports and News' started by Riptide, Oct 23, 2015.

  1. The Big Ragu

    The Big Ragu Moderator Staff Member

    To the extent that the heat is due to carbon emissions. ... pretty much everyone alive over the last 70 years (certainly in the United States) has played a significant part in it, and no, everyone hasn't been duped into the choices they have made (which brought them a ton of utility / benefit).
     
  2. Spartan Squad

    Spartan Squad Well-Known Member

    But how does gender binary play into this? Or does They/Them kill 10 trees every time we use it as a singular?
     
  3. The Big Ragu

    The Big Ragu Moderator Staff Member

    My point was obvious. That lawsuit is silly and wrong-headed. Governance around Portland has been plagued by a lot of useless (and sometimes harmful) stunts. That's what they do.
     
  4. Spartan Squad

    Spartan Squad Well-Known Member

    *blinks*

    Ok.

    EDIT: Still wondering what is “obvious” about supporting LGBTQ people in Portland and climate change…

    OK, so the lawsuit is … different … but how is them being inclusive relate?
     
    Last edited: Jun 26, 2023
  5. Alma

    Alma Well-Known Member

  6. I Should Coco

    I Should Coco Well-Known Member

    Pretty good column in Sunday's Seattle Times looking at how the 2021 "cap and trade" emissions law which hit fuel producers and refineries hard has resulted in Washington state having the costliest gas prices across the lower 48 (averaging about $5/gallon). Those rules have added an estimated 50 cents per gallon to the cost of gas here.

    On the road between ‘hogwash and baloney’ on WA’s high gas prices

    Now that might not be a bad thing — the point is reduce the use of fossil fuels, and if you put more taxes on them, people will hopefully figure out ways to use less. But as columnist Danny Westneat points out, it was not sold that way by Gov. Jay Inslee, who said these new rules might add "pennies" to the cost of gas.
     
  7. The Big Ragu

    The Big Ragu Moderator Staff Member

    It's a regressive tax. It hits poor people particularly hard, which is why the lies to sell it were so insidious. They talk out of both sides of their mouth, doing the "fair share" rhetoric one day. ... and then doing things that are regressive, while muddling what it is they are actually doing with nonsense to snow an ignorant public.

    This is what bothered me about Biden's rhetoric when the price of gas ran up. ... We got years of rhetoric promising to shift the nation away from fossil fuels, including a number of efforts to end oil and gas drilling and subsidize other more expensive energy sources at the expense of the fossil fuel industry. The rhetoric alone (forget the dollars going to hand-picked cronies) has curtailed new exploration. We have been losing a ton of refining capacity, as well, because the capital investment involved in building a new refinery is huge and anyone capable of the commitment is afraid of their business being outlawed before they can make back their investment. ... let alone see any return on it. Yet, when Biden saw his poll numbers dropping because the price of gas was going up. ... he pivoted into full Huey Long mode to hammer away at oil producers for not producing enough. Which is it? You want to end their business yesterday or you want them producing more and making what they sell cheaper?

    Everyone wants cheap oil. ... but they don't want it because it is bad for the environment. The politicians playing both sides of that, rather than being honest about the conundrum the world is battling with, are the worst.
     
    justgladtobehere and Batman like this.
  8. I Should Coco

    I Should Coco Well-Known Member

    In the case of Washington’s new carbon rules, at one point they were supposed to be accompanied by a tax credit or something like that to mitigate the impact on working class families. But that part never happened.
     
  9. I Should Coco

    I Should Coco Well-Known Member

    And of course, there ideally would be additional public transit options to give people alternatives to paying high prices for gas. Unfortunately, unless you live in the Puget Sound region, public transportation in Washington state is basically nil.
     
  10. The Big Ragu

    The Big Ragu Moderator Staff Member

    The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design.
     
  11. Alma

    Alma Well-Known Member

    From the column:

    I have a cynical theory about all this. After watching voters in our liberal, green state torpedo one climate initiative after another, I’ve concluded it might be impossible to pass one without strategically misrepresenting it to the public.

    That’s because climate fixes are upside-down from what typically wins. They offer immediate pain for speculative future benefit. Pay now, make life better later. That’s the opposite of our usual political formula, which either sells prompt perks or puts costs on a credit card (or both — see federal budget deficit.)

    In the end, I’m OK with the 50 cents per gallon, if it starts a shift away from fossil fuels. Beyond the spin job, the biggest failures are that the state didn’t come up with much to make oil companies eat some of those costs or to aid working people who can’t afford it.

    Switching from a dirty-fuel economy to a clean one is going to be the most disruptive conversion our society has attempted in my life. The truth is 50 cents a gallon is probably just the beginning.

    Should top officials be more honest about all this? Absolutely they should.

    But no hogwash or baloney: Would anything ever pass if they were?

    By the end, the columnist kind of wants it both ways - castigating leaders while ultimately suggesting the ends justified the means.

    But, he's honest in the bolded part. And progressive leaders do not generally want to be honest about it. It's hard to ask for a nationwide effort at sacrifice when we've spent untold decades awash in "nobody can tell me what to do" individualism on a variety of issues.
     
  12. BTExpress

    BTExpress Well-Known Member

    Even that wording is rosier than the truth.

    "Make life better later" than we're predicting it will be.

    But absolutely no better than what we have today, because we're not dealing with removing emissions, just adding them at a far lesser rate.

    So at the most all you can promise is "a lot of pain now, and if we're lucky things won't get worse later."

    Good luck to anyone selling that to the masses.
     
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