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Meanwhile on the International front....

Discussion in 'Sports and News' started by DanOregon, Apr 28, 2023.

Page 98 of 263
  1. The Big Ragu

    The Big Ragu Moderator Staff Member

    I see resolve, not Kabuki theater. They are not fucking around. After the period that preceded the founding of Israel, that resolve exists because they learned that they can't rely on the rest of the world, they believe they need to be vigilant about protecting themselves.

    Hamas continues to threaten more of what happened on October 7. It is still holding hostages. ... along with the bodies of hostages they've killed. Cease fire?

    I think you had that exactly backward. The Kabuki theater is the United Nations. It's a corrupt organization being led by a corrupt man who is driven by a morally bankrupt social ideology that is giving cover to some actors from around the world who have hatred for Israel based on religious bigotry. A cease fire gives impunity to Hamas. I completely get why Israel's response has been, "fuck off." Calling it Kabuki Theater suggests that they are engaging showmanship over content. I think they are as serious as a heart attack right now.
     
    The Big Ragu, Dec 12, 2023
    #1165
    Azrael likes this.
  2. Azrael

    Azrael Well-Known Member


    Israel vs the UN     is longstanding Kabuki.

    And again, the question isn't whether or not Israel has a right to defend itself.

    The question is, how will it do so?
     
    Azrael, Dec 12, 2023
    #1166
  3. doctorquant

    doctorquant Well-Known Member

    Since 2015 Israel has been the target of 140 UN General Assembly condemnatory resolutions ... the "runner-up" (Russia) has been the target of only 23. Since 2006, the UN Human Rights Council -- for which only Israel is a standing agenda item -- has seen fit to condemn Israel 104 times. No. 2 on its list? Syria with 43.

    "Kabuki" ... The Japanese word for "crock of shit."
     
    doctorquant, Dec 12, 2023
    #1167
    franticscribe, Azrael and Batman like this.
  4. Azrael

    Azrael Well-Known Member


    That Israel and the UN don't get along or trust one another goes back to the founding. But the UN certainly isn't the only individual or entity suggesting a ceasefire.

    The question remains, how should Israel defend itself?
     
    Azrael, Dec 12, 2023
    #1168
  5. doctorquant

    doctorquant Well-Known Member

    I would argue the question is this: "By whose lights should Israel's defending itself be judged?" And as that's my question, part of my answer is, "And the UN can step the fuck off."
     
    doctorquant, Dec 12, 2023
    #1169
    Azrael likes this.
  6. Mr._Graybeard

    Mr._Graybeard Well-Known Member

    Israel is performing by the standards the United States has set as an international "peacekeeper." We've destroyed many a village in order to save them.
     
    Mr._Graybeard, Dec 12, 2023
    #1170
  7. Azrael

    Azrael Well-Known Member

    That's fine.

    But if we're going to measure the breadth and efficacy of Israel's response to Hamas, are international rules for the protection of civilian populations no longer to be considered?
     
    Azrael, Dec 12, 2023
    #1171
  8. doctorquant

    doctorquant Well-Known Member

    Only if the only entities whose consideration is considered are the UN, Hamas, or those free-speech warriors populating the commons and faculty lounges of upmarket colleges in these here United States.
     
    doctorquant, Dec 12, 2023
    #1172
    Azrael likes this.
  9. Regan MacNeil

    Regan MacNeil Well-Known Member

    If the growing consensus answer to the problem is "Only Israel gets to decide how to defend itself," there's not much point to a conversation, is there?

    I don't see a whole lot of Israeli civilians continuing to die, unless I'm missing those links on here, so we might as well rename this the Running Dead Palestinians thread. I can think of a few people who'd absolutely LOVE that thread title.
     
    Regan MacNeil, Dec 12, 2023
    #1173
  10. doctorquant

    doctorquant Well-Known Member

    I don't see such a consensus emerging, and if one did, I'd not be party to it. That said, in my view the UN has long forfeited any right to a seat at that table.
     
    doctorquant, Dec 12, 2023
    #1174
    Azrael likes this.
  11. The Big Ragu

    The Big Ragu Moderator Staff Member

    I am not sure of a lot of things with regard to the images I am seeing out of the Gaza Strip.

    The one thing I am sure of is that António Guterres demanding a ceasefire, has zero to do with how Israel defends itself. I am not sure the bodies from the terror attack were even cold before Guterres showed his stripes: the terrorist act 'didn't happen in a vacuum.'

    What we're all seeing -- the images -- is pure brutality. You can't be human and not be questioning whether the amount of destruction and force is justified or if Israel can be more targeted. My problem is that I have no idea what they are dealing with, and just how much I should be believing them -- about Hamas hiding in civilian populations, having weapons stores among innocent people, networks of tunnels that run beneath residential homes, etc. I don't see how anyone else can know just how justified or unjustified what we are seeing is. Yet, we are getting a whole lot of "war criminals" rhetoric.

    During WWII, allied bombing raids killed between half a million and a million German civilians. I don't know if it all could be justified or if it was all targeted enough or necessary to ultimately take out the Nazis. I am sure at least some of it wasn't. If that was now, would you have people -- who think they are acting as humanitarians, or worse are actually sympathetic -- demanding. ... a ceasefire?
     
    The Big Ragu, Dec 12, 2023
    #1175
    Azrael likes this.
  12. Azrael

    Azrael Well-Known Member

    Looks like another demand this afternoon. UN General Assembly set to demand Gaza ceasefire

    That said, Joe's not wrong about Israel and the question of global support:

    Biden says Netanyahu must change government, Israel losing global support
     
    Azrael, Dec 12, 2023
    #1176
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