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Meanwhile on the International front....

Discussion in 'Sports and News' started by DanOregon, Apr 28, 2023.

Page 116 of 263
  1. outofplace

    outofplace Well-Known Member

    No, logic doesn't dictate that. Just assuming they will move past war to genocide is the sort of bullshit the idiots on college campuses are spewing. Do better.
     
    outofplace, Dec 22, 2023
    #1381
  2. Michael_ Gee

    Michael_ Gee Well-Known Member

    Members of the Israeli cabinet have proposed removing the Palestinians from Gaza and the West Bank. It's an idea within Israeli's political dialogue. It may not happen. But no one has come up with an alternative scenario that makes a lick of sense related to the facts on the ground. I mean, let's see some possible endgames right on this board. It's an impossible and horrible situation for all involved. But SOMETHING will happen when the large scale war ends. What will it be?
     
    Michael_ Gee, Dec 22, 2023
    #1382
  3. Azrael

    Azrael Well-Known Member

    presented without comment:

    https://theintercept.com/2023/12/03/netanyahu-thin-gaza-population/

    Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu has tasked his top adviser, Ron Dermer, the minister of strategic affairs, with designing plans to “thin” the Palestinian population in the Gaza Strip “to a minimum,” according to a bombshell new report in an Israeli newspaper founded by the late Republican billionaire Sheldon Adelson.

    The outlet, Israel Hayom, is considered to be something of an official organ for Netanyahu. It reported that the plan has two main elements: The first would use the pressure of the war and humanitarian crisis to persuade Egypt to allow refugees to flow to other Arab countries, and the second would open up sea routes so that Israel “allows a mass escape to European and African countries.” Dermer, who is originally from Miami, is a Netanyahu confidante and was previously Israeli ambassador to the United States, and enjoys close relations with many members of Congress.

    תוכנית רה"מ לאזרחי הרצועה: הכיוון - החוצה | ישראל היום

    https://www.israeltoday.co.il/read/...settlement-to-american-aid-to-arab-countries/
     
    Azrael, Dec 22, 2023
    #1383
  4. outofplace

    outofplace Well-Known Member

    People in our government have talked about Jewish space lasers. It's an idea that was introduced into U.S. political dialogue.
     
    outofplace, Dec 22, 2023
    #1384
  5. Azrael

    Azrael Well-Known Member

    Azrael, Dec 22, 2023
    #1385
  6. The Big Ragu

    The Big Ragu Moderator Staff Member

    Netanyahu is a complete fuck.

    It's also not even a good gambit, because the dirty secret is that the Egyptians -- and most of the rest of the Arab world -- want no part of the Palestinians. Officially it's, "The poor Palestinians" because of their populations who hate Israel and use the Palestinians as a rallying cry to take to the streets.

    But unofficially, those countries look down on the Palestinians, consider them untrustworthy from thing after I thing I have read. ... and governments around the Middle East see them as dangerous. Hamas is an outgrowth of the Muslim Brotherhood, and the Egyptian government is petrified of letting more extremist types in, which is why they don't even want the border with the Gaza strip opened even a smidgen, let alone letting a few million Palestinians flow through Egypt. The same thing with the royal family rulers around the Middle East, they see the religious extremists as the biggest threats to their power, and they want no part of the Palestinians, beyond throwing a little bit of monetary aid toward the territory to be able to say they are doing something.

    The idea that the guys in power in Israel think they are going to "persuade" anyone else in the Middle East to take in a few million people that those other governments fear and have disdain for, is absurd. With all the "poor Palestine" for the last how many decades. ... the most glaring thing was always how none of those other countries were ever willing to offer a haven.
     
    The Big Ragu, Dec 22, 2023
    #1386
    2muchcoffeeman, wicked and Dyno like this.
  7. The Big Ragu

    The Big Ragu Moderator Staff Member

    This isn't analagous to the U.S. in Iraq certainly. More so Afghanistan, but the important exception is that Afghanistan isn't right on the U.S.'s border and hasn't been a continuous threat -- as "too strong" as you said Israel is, it wasn't too strong for the attrocities that were carried out on October 7 to happen.

    You're right that for every terrorist they kill they are probably inadvertently creating 4 new ones right now. So they may be shooting themselves in the foot right now.

    You also may be right about Israel turning into an ethnic cleansing monster. ... but I think it is still unfair to ascribe that kind of motivation to them yet (even with Netanyahu in charge). October 7 should have given them more lattitude than they have goten from some people. It has seemed to me that a lot of people with preconceived narratives about who is oppressed and who is an oppresser went right for ethnic cleansing / war criminal narratives with barely any acknowledgment of what happenened on October 7 and what it did to provoke the response from Israel.
     
    The Big Ragu, Dec 22, 2023
    #1387
    outofplace likes this.
  8. doctorquant

    doctorquant Well-Known Member

    It's distressingly post-modern of me, but that fact has caused me to be awfully, awfully skeptical of what I'm reading in heretofore unimpeachable outlets. I trust the New York Times reporting on the "war crimes" facet of this barely a smidge more than I do that of, e.g., Hamas Today.
     
    doctorquant, Dec 22, 2023
    #1388
    Azrael likes this.
  9. Azrael

    Azrael Well-Known Member

    There's a list, so it's pretty objective.

    The Geneva Conventions and their Commentaries

    United Nations Office on Genocide Prevention and the Responsibility to Protect

    https://ihl-databases.icrc.org/en/customary-ihl/v1/rule156

    Does Europe back the Hague court's war probe in Israel and Gaza?


    For all the good it does, I think the press has generally been fair about applying the term in both directions.

    Five countries ask International Criminal Court to investigate the situation in Palestinian territories | CNN

    Have war crimes been committed in Israel and Gaza and what international laws apply?

    www.npr.org/2023/11/12/1212534838/both-sides-of-the-israeli-hamas-war-are-being-accused-of-war-crimes

    https://www.reuters.com/world/middl...apply-israel-palestinian-conflict-2023-11-16/
     
    Azrael, Dec 22, 2023
    #1389
  10. X-Hack

    X-Hack Well-Known Member

    I haven't read the next however many posts, but private security at a retail store is absolutely allowed to detain you if they have probable cause to believe you have committed theft. But only for what's considered a "reasonable amount of time" -- typically however long it takes to conduct a reasonable investigation and for police to arrive.
     
    X-Hack, Dec 22, 2023
    #1390
  11. Neutral Corner

    Neutral Corner Well-Known Member

    Reporting out of Gaza says better than 20,000 Palestinians have been killed in two months. The U.S. lost 52,000 dead in Vietnam over fifteen years.

    Even if you are skeptical of the count and discount it by 25%, that sort of a death toll among a far smaller population will have a generational effect.
     
    Neutral Corner, Dec 22, 2023
    #1391
  12. The Big Ragu

    The Big Ragu Moderator Staff Member

    Of course. They have probable cause. I have said that in several of the posts.

    We were talking about receipt checkers in what you quoted. They are stopping everyone who tries to leave the store, not people they have a reason to believe are trying to leave with something they didn't pay for. There is not probable cause, and if that happened to me, I'd argue false imprisonment if they tried to hold me against my will.

    I suspect you can find a court somewhere that has turned it upside down. Because courts make a mess of things like this. But the probable cause standard means that you need a reasonable basis for believing that a crime may have been committed. And receipt checkers don't fit that standard.
     
    The Big Ragu, Dec 22, 2023
    #1392
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