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Chevy Volt a Failure - GM to Layoff 1,300

Discussion in 'Sports and News' started by Evil Bastard (aka Chris_L), Mar 2, 2012.

  1. FileNotFound

    FileNotFound Well-Known Member

    Hyrdocarbons are hydrocarbons, whether they’re coming from a ‘67 Impala or a hybrid’s petrol engine. Less emissions is a good thing. No emissions is a better thing.

    (and all the internal-combustion taxis here are Camrys. It’s the Crown Vic of today.)
     
    Last edited: Feb 21, 2024
  2. I Should Coco

    I Should Coco Well-Known Member

    Can’t believe I’m taking the side of gasoline powered engines, but since our modern American society was built around them, the switch to EVs has some serious hurdles to overcome. Here are two off the top of my head:

    1. The lack of charging stations, particularly the rapid charging equipment, in rural areas. I know more of these are appearing every week, but not without a “subsidy” of some kind. When the gasoline powered car rose to prominence 100 years ago, most of the service stations were privately funded. They opened because they could make a profit. EV charging stations aren’t there yet.

    2. We still haven’t figured out how to get EV users and owners to help pay for the roads they use. Federal and state gas taxes were a good, if not perfect, way to help fund construction and repair of highways. It’s tough to replicate that for electric vehicles.
     
  3. Twirling Time

    Twirling Time Well-Known Member

    Two easy fixes. Taking the second first, an odometer tax for miles driven would be the fairest measurement for assessment of taxes and might even mean killing the gas/diesel tax. The first point, the lack of rural charging stations, will be solved in time. I do think a home slow-charging option plugging into 120V needs to be kept available.
     
  4. Batman

    Batman Well-Known Member

    3. Cold weather. There have been a lot of problems this winter, in the U.S. and Europe, with very cold weather sapping the charge of EV batteries.

    4. Charging time. As much as the lack of charging stations, this is the biggest hurdle to overcome. Until people can pull into a charging station, plug in, get a full charge and be on their way in 5-10 minutes like they can at gas stations it'll be an issue.
    Personal example: I thought I had enough gas left to get to work today, so I skipped stopping last night. This morning I guess it had settled so I needed to fill up on the way to work. I was cutting it close on making it on time but it only took a few minutes to fill up. Do that same scenario with an EV that takes 30-40 minutes to charge and I'm late. And before you say you'd just charge at home if you own an EV, think of how stupid/forgetful/tired people get when they come home from work, and how stupid/forgetful they are with cars in general. There's a big mental difference between a five-minute pit stop and a 30-40 minute chore. And just imagine if you're in that scenario and you pull into a charging station where every space is full or broken and you double the time waiting. It's off-putting, to say the least.

    5. The charging stations suck. Outside of the Tesla chargers there is ample anecdotal evidence of charging stations being broken or out of service all across the country. They need to become a lot more reliable as well as prevalent.

    6. Crime. Gas stations are already a magnet for robberies in cities, and that's when you can get in and out relatively quickly. I doubt it'll take long for criminals to figure out that they have a much more captive audience at an EV charging station. I think a lot of those places would have to seriously beef up security. It's an added expense for operators that'll eventually get passed on to consumers.

    7. Home wiring. I still think we're headed for a nationwide wave of house fires if/when EVs become the norm over the next decade or two. People will try to plug an EV into an outlet that can't handle the load and <boom>. An EV battery, as they are wont to occasionally do, spontaneously combusts in a garage and <boom>. Especially true in older homes with old wiring.

    8. Electrical infrastructure. Along with more charging stations and charging time, this is one of the big three hurdles, I think. We're already taxing our grid during peak times and now they want to throw the entire national transportation network onto it? Seriously? Does anyone pushing for the instant transition to EVs (often the same ones trying to destroy existing power plants and keeping new ones from being built) realize what a disaster that would be?
     
  5. Batman

    Batman Well-Known Member

    Outside of a NASCAR track, I just don't think I've ever heard anyone refer to a Camry as "belching emissions."
     
    FileNotFound likes this.
  6. Azrael

    Azrael Well-Known Member


    The cheapest full electric these days is the Nissan Leaf. $30000 or so.

    The average US new car price has crept up to $47000+. A lot of which I suppose are high-end Lariat Package King Ranch Raptor pickups and luxury stratoliners from Germany.

    The hot new Prius Prime hybrid - 100+ MPG - starts at $33000.
     
  7. Scout

    Scout Well-Known Member

    Electric cars are a technology that once it reaches a financial and practical tipping point, it will wipe out the previous technology. For the electric car, it’s all about the battery, or fuel source.

    There are tons of products that have been almost completely erased by better technology. Some took time. Some were almost overnight.

    Film cameras. CDs. DVDs. Paper maps. Mapquest. Ink well pens. Wood burning stoves in homes. Land lines. Writing checks. Text books in schools. Report cards. Sending letters in the mail. In-person banking.

    There are so many things in our lives that have changed because technology created a better option.

    Shit., in 20 years, people won’t even own cars and parking lots will look as natural as roping a horse outside while you’re in the mercantile.
     
    dixiehack likes this.
  8. Scout

    Scout Well-Known Member

    Ragu, what cars do you own?
     
  9. Hermes

    Hermes Well-Known Member

    I’ve said it often. Within 10 years most two-car households will have one all-battery vehicle and one hybrid that gets the mpgs the Prius does now. Best of both worlds.
     
    FileNotFound and Inky_Wretch like this.
  10. Driftwood

    Driftwood Well-Known Member

    I'll chime in here because I'm qualified to give a personal opinion on one topic that keeps coming up: charging time.
    I regularly make a 410-mile door-to-door trip.
    I make one stop for as long as it takes me to pump and pee.
    I'm not only a leisurely cruise. My goal is to get from Point A to Point B as quickly as possible. In fact, it's a game. I am always trying to beat my best time.*


    *Driving normally and no recklessly.
     
  11. BTExpress

    BTExpress Well-Known Member

    The last four cars I have bought combined cost about $40,000, and when all is said and done will have given me about a million miles.
     
  12. The Big Ragu

    The Big Ragu Moderator Staff Member

    I have never sat in a Nissan Leaf, but the picture in my head is. ... fairly no frills & range limitations compared to more expensive EVs.

    Most people would look at it compared to the comparable gas powered car they can get in the price range. And I am thinking that unless you really want an EV for some non-financial reason and that is what they can afford. ... say a Toyota Camry is looking way more attractive (and cheaper?) to the typical person when they add up everything -- the features of the car, the price, the gas vs. electric cost equation, etc.

    The Nissan Leaf has been around for a long time, and I think the actual sales bear out the reality that the masses don't find it to be a very good value proposition.
     
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