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Meanwhile on the International front....

Discussion in 'Sports and News' started by DanOregon, Apr 28, 2023.

  1. Spartan Squad

    Spartan Squad Well-Known Member

    With regard to the signs about the encroachment of Palestinian territory, when you're talking about the loss of land occupied by Palestinians, it isn't dishonest to couch it in those terms. Yes, Israel has had conflict with its Arab neighbors. But those conflicts aren't what the protesters are pointing out. External conflicts by Egypt, Iran, Saudi Arabia, Jordan, Syria et al tell a story, but not necessarily this story. This story is the fight between people who thought this was their home up until WWI when Britain started promising land for a Jewish settlement. Other Arab nations have used it as an excuse to fight, but Israel defending it's borders and sovereignty can happen without driving people out of their homes. All protest signs are biased. Complaints about protest signs are biased because you want them to be sympathetic to your side. Again, this is a map of Palestinian loss of settlements inside of a Palestinian-Israeli conflict. Biased or not, it's appropriate.

    I'll take my ats off line.
     
  2. The Big Ragu

    The Big Ragu Moderator Staff Member

    Even that was ahistorical, at least whatever in there didn't have inexact language such as "loss of land occupied by Palestinians."

    What SPECIFICALLY does that mean?

    Because speaking in very exact terms. ... In 1947, the United Nations came up with a plan that would divide Great Britain’s former Palestinian mandate into separate Jewish and Arab states in May 1948, with the religious sites in Jerusalem staying under International control. The goal was a Jewish state. ... in the wake of what had happened in Europe earlier in the decade. The Jews were on board with that. Guess who wasn't?

    The Arabs living there (as well as in neighboring countries) flat out refused that arrangement. Not only refused to accept a Jewish state, they formed the "Arab Liberation Army" (largely composed of Arabs from neighboring countries, because those "Palestinians" who didn't think of themselves that way in 1947, weren't very numerous). ... which proceeded to attack Jewish cities, settlements and the Jewish armed forces. They would not accept a Jewish state or peaceful coexistence, and they attacked. The Jews fought back to gain control over the territory allotted to them under the Partition Plan, and they gained the upper hand. In May, 1948, Israel declared its independence, which brought an even bigger wave of Arab attacks -- armies from Lebanon, Syria, Iraq and Egypt. To act like, oh those were "external conflicts" and it wasn't a coordinated effort of Arab forces from all over the region to try to eradicate Israel several times (again in 1967, 1973) is absurd.

    But just sticking to that "loss of land occupied by Palestinians" THAT is the backdrop in which "The Nakba" occurred. They would not accept Jews there, did not want coexistence, and they attacked. ... and they LOST (something THEY had initiated). ... and either fled or they were forceably expelled when it was crystal clear that they would not accept peace and would remain a threat if they remained.

    Today, there are something like 5 million Arabs living in Gaza and the West Bank (their population has exploded). Their average age is 19. Whatever curated history they have been fed like what you posted (dishonestly or otherwise), this isn't 1947 (a year that might as well be 1647 for most of them given their age) it is 2024.

    But the one thing that hasn't changed since then, they don't want Israel to exist (opinion polls show this over and over again), and the attacks keep coming, with them now embracing terrorism because of their relative powerlesness, and the fact that most of the rest of the Arabs in the region have moved on and given up that fight. Imagine how much better the grandchildren and great grandchildren of those Arabs in 1947 would be today if they would have just accepted coexistence, something that has been rejected over and over again (for example, Yasser Arafat in 2000 or 2001 when Israel was tripping all over itself to come to a deal).
     
    X-Hack likes this.
  3. Justin_Rice

    Justin_Rice Well-Known Member



    How should the problem be solved?
     
  4. The Big Ragu

    The Big Ragu Moderator Staff Member

    With oppressor / oppressed narratives that won't even acknowledge the historical facts of what led to where we are today.

    Seriously, it's not being "solved" anytime soon.

    What happened on October 7 was brutal, there are still hostages being held in Gaza, and Israelis have always been very hardened about dealing with Arab aggression. It's as intractable as it has been for decades.
     
  5. Justin_Rice

    Justin_Rice Well-Known Member


    Alright .... so if this isn't going to be solved, what is Israel doing?
     
  6. The Big Ragu

    The Big Ragu Moderator Staff Member

    They have been bombing the living shit (and then some) out of the Gaza Strip.
     
  7. outofplace

    outofplace Well-Known Member

    Who said Netanyahu isn't callous and bloodthirsty? Ragu didn't write that. Neither did I. The particular point I take issue with is your claim that it is about killing Muslims for him. It isn't. It is about killing the people who attacked Israel and not giving a damn who else gets killed along with them.
     
  8. Regan MacNeil

    Regan MacNeil Well-Known Member

    He'll never know all the people who did, so he'll never know if he got them all. So this will continue forever.

    Not really interested in a semantic argument while the bodies are continuing to pile up.
     
  9. justgladtobehere

    justgladtobehere Well-Known Member

    It's not a semantic argument when you stated Bibi wants to kill Muslims.
     
  10. Regan MacNeil

    Regan MacNeil Well-Known Member

    And I'll state it again: Bibi wants to kill Muslims.
     
  11. Batman

    Batman Well-Known Member

    They certainly gave him a good excuse.

    https://www.hamas-massacre.net/
     
  12. outofplace

    outofplace Well-Known Member

    He does not want to kill people just because they are Muslims. Come on. You know better than this.
     
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