Thoughts and Prayers: The Religion Thread

No surprises here. My feeling about that is similar to my thoughts about the Sophia Movement in the 90s'. A church really can't be all things to all people and for many, it's a question of finding the closest fit. If some Protestant Liturgical congregants want Sophia groups, Marian prayer circles, or Charismatic experiences, great. Knock yourself out. Just understand that is an added feature for those folks, the lack of it in the existing ministries is not a bug to be fixed for everyone. (There are root workers and two-headed ladies on both sides of my family tree and I don't mind telling anyone who asks, but it's not the first thing I reveal about myself. FWIW, it doesn't negate my religious choices nor does it inspire me to bring little wax dolls to Sunday School.)

People whose theologies are similar to Evangelical mid- to extreme Fundamentalism should feel comfortable where they worship without having to make over their denomination of birth/raising/what have you. At the same time, be upfront about it. You wanna be COGIC or any flavor of Baptist? Be the best COGIC or Baptist person you can be and own it.

Don't know if Days of Reconciliation are a thing where you are. I don't think we've had one since COVID. It might be nice to see some churches combine.

 

Yep, if you want to go, then go. But I found it really troubling that so many of the disaffiliations were led by the senior pastor at the church - instead of by the congregants. I thought they should have taken a "what do y'all want to do?" stance rather than a "here's what we should do!" one.

That isn't a thing down here. But I've emailed my senior pastor about it. Thanks.

 

I'm truly burnishing my Methodork credentials here because I remember this from confirmation class: John Wesley didn't want to start a new church when he coined the Methodist movement. He just wanted to democratize the Anglican church.

The churches in my hometown (at least when I left 20 years ago) were ELCA, Baptist, a non-denom that has moved outside of town to the former Air Force base, and Catholic.

Our church in Minnesota was big enough and forward thinking enough to start streaming basically immediately after the pandemic started and we still do today. The pastor likes to cite all three varieties (in person, live streaming and streaming after the fact) as equally valid. I don't necessarily agree, but to some degree it helps them claim growth when attendance numbers might reflect otherwise. During COVID, we were producing worship for multiple Methodist congregations. That has mostly returned to normal, but even then, we've absorbed two other Methodist congregations in town in the last 10-15 years.

 

I don’t feel qualified to lead it, but I’ve thought we needed some kind of “Confirmation crash course” for folks like me that came to Methodism in adulthood, either as a class or podcast.

 

When my daughter went through confirmation classes two years ago, I attended them all. I had a whole bunch of "Oh, I'd forgotten that" like the Wesleyan Quadrilateral (Scripture, Tradition, Reason and Experience) along with the Three Types of Grace (Prevenient, Justifying and Sanctifying).

And, yes, I had to look up the types of Grace just now.

 

Sounds meaningful.

 

I always struggle to remember “Justifying.”

 

It sounds like kind of a secret handshake to me.

My grandmother's family belonged to a tiny sect called the Old Apostolic Lutheran Church -- UP Chip may be familiar with it. Its roots are in Lapland, where a botanist-turned theologian launched a religious revival to curb drunkenness in the 19th century. It's quite fundamentalist, and and a foundation of their tenets is based on the belief that only they are following the true path to salvation. The movement has parsed this and that in their package of beliefs over the years, and as a result there are nine or 10 branches of the church in the Americas, most with less than 10,000 followers. Here's a link: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laestadianism_in_the_Americas

A few years ago I saw an excellent documentary called "Come Sunday," which told the story of the pastor of a pentacostal megachurch who had a crisis of faith following a trip to Africa. Seeing the multitudes there living what he saw as righteous lives, he became unconvinced that they were all bound to eternity in the circles of hell. He brought that conclusion home, and his congregation quickly fell apart.

It reminds me of an old Dave Berg cartoon in Mad Magazine, where two guys get into a fistfight over the proper translation of "love one another."

My mother was a Missouri Synod Lutheran, but when sis and I were kids the nearest Lutheran church was LCA (now ELCA). The pastor there and his wife were the most genuine Christians I've ever met. They really walked the walk, which unsettled the white blue-collar congregation in a transitional Chicago neighborhood more than a little bit.
The pastor, William Lesher, went on to serve as president of the ELCA seminaries in Berkeley and Chicago. During his stint in Chicago particularly he embraced the concept of world interfaith cooperation, and he eventually led the Parliament of World Religions. He may be the most significant man I've ever seen up close for an extended period. Here's his obit: https://claremont-courier.com/obituaries/t26788-lesher-32011/

That said, when I turned 11 or 12, the curse of critical thought entered my mind. The basic message, I got -- love one another -- but I saw flaws in the textbook. I think the story of Job was what really turned me off.

I felt guilty. Here were these nice people telling me stuff I had come to disbelieve. It seemed dishonest to just smile and nod my head. But I did, until we joined the ranks of white flight in my teens and moved to Wisconsin. I've seldom seen the inside of a church since.

 

Well, Methodists don’t have secret handshakes. And we certainly don’t think ours is the only way. At our church, we focus on loving others as ourselves and helping in the community.

 

That's great.

The handshake crack was over the line. I apologize for that.

 

No offense taken. No apologies needed.

 

Just catching up on this thread.

I feel for my Methodist brethern going through the uncertainty of what these decisions will mean for their congregations. I wholeheartedly support the steps the UMC took this week, but understand very well the questions it raises.

I'm a lifelong Episopalian. For the last 17 years I've been a member of a small Episcopal church that was absolutely gutted when the Episcopal Church USA went down this path some 20 years ago.

On Easter Sunday 2006, our rector announced during his sermon that after several years of trying to remain under the big tent, he could no longer be a priest in the Episcopal Church and was leaving to join one of the unrecognized Anglican Dioceses in the United States that was aligning itself with the Anglican Communion's African churches. Overnight, my church went from 300+ members to 10 as most just left for other Episcopal churches in the area and a few followed him as he planted an Anglican church (that failed after a couple of years).

My wife and I joined a year or so later - increasing the membership to 16 - and as a congregation we struggled mightily. But we kept plugging away and slowly but surely it has grown and grown. One of the more interesting developments, and one of the reasons I love my church dearly, is that when we were super small, we felt comfortable opening our doors to our neighbors in need (of food, housing, friendship, etc). That outreach ministry has remained central to our core as we have started to prosper again.

The change has been hard, but good for us in more ways than simply being accepting of our LGBT family and friends.