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Meanwhile on the International front....

Discussion in 'Sports and News' started by DanOregon, Apr 28, 2023.

  1. Azrael

    Azrael Well-Known Member

  2. The Big Ragu

    The Big Ragu Moderator Staff Member

    I'm tired of the "academic freedom" polemics about this.

    Academic freedom can't exist in an overly controlled environment.

    It also can't exist when there is anarchy.

    It requires order. Just like any society where there is actual freedom never being characterized by anarchy. There need to be laws / rules that are designed to protect everyone's rights -- you are free to be a dick until your dick behavior involves stepping on other people's toes.

    The irony of things like that Louis Menand piece (I find that guy's opinions on the wrong side of things an uncanny amount of the time) is that it does nothing to acknowledge that that ship had sailed in the OTHER direction a long time ago with the (wrongheaded) ideological groupthink that was forced on people within those institutions using bully tactics from within (not a bunch of bloviating politicians on the outside who haven't done anything yet, at least, to codify anything that impinges on academic freedom despite all the hand wringing).

    What you are actually seeing is a little bit of pushback on what had been ACTUAL threats to academic freedom that have rotted those schools and created the problems they are now having in the first place (they created a monster and the monster got even more monstrous).

    I won't say the tide is turning on the DEI nonsense, but I saw this yesterday (no idea if it is true, of course they are not making a public announcement):

     
    Last edited: May 5, 2024
  3. Alma

    Alma Well-Known Member

    We're in the middle of a course correction on liberalism/progressivism.

    Liberalism - free thought, expansion of norms - often was the vanguard of academic freedom. Is still.

    Progressivism is often the repression of academic freedom because progressivism is about executing its developed, often sentimental solutions more than it is expression. That's how, for example, the climate movement came to embrace wind and solar power - over more effective nuclear power - out of " the earth" narratives that don't have anything to do with good science.

    The idea of intersectionality is interesting; I don't think it ultimately lands in a way that works, but explore it.

    Intersectionality as an installation stultifies expression. It's Calvinism for the secularists; a matrix that predestines.
     
    X-Hack likes this.
  4. Webster

    Webster Well-Known Member

    I needed some word salad with my breakfast this morning.
     
  5. outofplace

    outofplace Well-Known Member

  6. Inky_Wretch

    Inky_Wretch Well-Known Member

    Or the global far right is dragging the Overton Window in their direction.
     
    garrow and Spartan Squad like this.
  7. Azrael

    Azrael Well-Known Member

    Dartmouth, stultifying expression

    GMwMFy6WEAAxSdG.jpg
     
  8. The Big Ragu

    The Big Ragu Moderator Staff Member

    I can't get the link to work. ... But that Fareed Zakaria on CNN had two professors from Dartmouth on this morning, one is Israeli-American, the other is a former Egyptian dilomat / academic, and they teach a course together on the Israel-Palestinian conflict. This was the beginning of what the Israeli-American had to say about the demonstrations. ...

    The norms are for debate, not for coercion. And what Ezzedine and I tried to do was model what that kind of debate would look like. I believe that if you are going to set up an encampment on the green at Dartmouth -- which is really not just some marginal place, it is really the main thoroughfare of the campus where they are planning commencement -- and if you set up an encampment on the green, you are basically saying, ‘I believe in a conception of justice that is so fundamental to me, that I am going to coerce you to accept it or you’re not going to be able to have something that is valuable to you. That is not debate. That is coercion. And institutions that teach coercion, prepare you to maybe be a commissar or a priest, but not to be a citizen of the united states.
     
    Last edited: May 5, 2024
  9. Alma

    Alma Well-Known Member

    Comedians - perhaps the biggest current critics of progressive orthodoxy- aren’t the global right.
     
  10. X-Hack

    X-Hack Well-Known Member

    I doubt they'd know who she was. Peggy's heyday was about 25 years before these kids were born. By means of comparison, I doubt if I was a student protestor screeching about overthrowing Noriega in the late 80s or early 90s, I would have known who the hell, say, Joseph Alsop was (just to throw a name out there) if he approached me on the Michigan campus and asked me to explain what I thought. I would have just figured he was a random (but really freakin' old) reporter and told him what I thought. And I was more informed about that kind of thing than my average classmate would have been.
     
  11. Neutral Corner

    Neutral Corner Well-Known Member

    I'd be amazed if they recognized her. OTOH, she might have identified herself when trying for a quote. A bright and politically aware kid might know the name. Seems unlikely they knew, though, who the granny asking questions was.
     
  12. Inky_Wretch

    Inky_Wretch Well-Known Member

    OFFS, any comedian whining about PC wokeness is a fucking hack. And that includes 2024 Jerry Seinfeld.
     
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