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Meanwhile on the International front....

Discussion in 'Sports and News' started by DanOregon, Apr 28, 2023.

  1. outofplace

    outofplace Well-Known Member

    Like you, they should realize they changed things Oct. 7.
     
  2. outofplace

    outofplace Well-Known Member

    Bullshit. Hamas declared there was a deal when there was none. Netanyahu is a piece of shit, but to blame him entirely for this is utter nonsense.
     
  3. Neutral Corner

    Neutral Corner Well-Known Member

    Who else should I blame for the IDF going into Rafah?
     
  4. outofplace

    outofplace Well-Known Member

    Hamas deserves a little for starting this war and for hiding among the civilians there, but I was talking about the peace talks. Hamas made a fuss about accepting a deal that was never on the table and got people to fall for it. You're one of them.
     
  5. Neutral Corner

    Neutral Corner Well-Known Member

    I think that maybe Blinken and William Burns have irons in the fire that you are ignoring.
     
  6. outofplace

    outofplace Well-Known Member

    I'm aware of the talk of a larger deal. I think you are ignoring the stunt Hamas pulled yesterday.
     
  7. LanceyHoward

    LanceyHoward Well-Known Member

    US says defence pact with Saudi Arabia not possible without Israel deal

    This is probably paywalled but it is an article where Jake Sullivan of the NSA says the United States will not sign a defense agreement with Saudi Arabia if there is not a three way deal with Israel. Personally, I am opposed to a defense pact with Saudi Arabia under any circumstances. I don't think the Saudi government is worth one American life.
     
  8. outofplace

    outofplace Well-Known Member

    I get that, but this is an attempt to secure the Middle East and aid Israel. It would also be a defeat for Hamas and other hostile entities in the region.
     
  9. LanceyHoward

    LanceyHoward Well-Known Member

    I get that. But I think the Mideast is a complicated place and the treaty will not solve every problem. Previous military interventions by the United States in that region have not ended well. The dictators in Saudi Arabia want support to fight the Iraqis, who also have a hideous government.

    The Palestinians and the Israelis have been fighting for 75 years. I don't think the immediate defeat of Hamas will permanently resolve the situation. IA defense treaty with Saudi Arabia will not stop that fight.

    The benefits of the treaty could well be ethereal. The cost in blood would not be.
     
  10. Neutral Corner

    Neutral Corner Well-Known Member

    I think that the diplomatic play that they are attempting is to bring off a substantial treaty between Israel and the Saudis. The trade advantages there are many, and such a deal was close before the Hamas attack, indeed it may have been a trigger for it. The two of them would provide a regional alliance to counterbalance Iran. Biden wants to get the U.S. out of the Middle East for obvious reasons. For sure he does not want U.S. boots on the ground.

    The only way that happens now is if Israel negotiates a Palestinian state. That's the Saudi's price for getting involved in that mess. The Saudis, with money and support from others in the region (look at the list of countries who helped shoot down hundreds of Iranian drones targeting Israel a few weeks back) will have to provide the security force standing along the border. The UN and various wealthy Gulf states will need to contribute container loads of cash to rebuild a viable Palestinian homeland.

    None of that is going anywhere unless Bibi stops ripping it apart before it starts.
     
  11. The Big Ragu

    The Big Ragu Moderator Staff Member

    Israel is not signing on to a Palestinian State that doesn't come with a guarantee to Israel's security. That means no Hamas. And it means Israel heavily involved at first until it believes its security is guaranteed.

    It's amazing that people don't get that and understand why that would be Israel's (this is not just Netanyahu) stance.
     
    Liut and Batman like this.
  12. Alma

    Alma Well-Known Member

    Opinion | Three Reasons the Campus Protests Are Part of the Problem

    My view: Hamas was ready to sacrifice thousands of Gazan civilians to win the support of the next global generation on TikTok. And it worked. But one reason it worked was a lack of critical thinking by too many in that generation — the result of a campus culture that has become way too much about what to think and not how to think.
     
    OscarMadison and Liut like this.
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