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Meanwhile on the International front....

Discussion in 'Sports and News' started by DanOregon, Apr 28, 2023.

  1. Neutral Corner

    Neutral Corner Well-Known Member

    I think that this discussion is giving Israel a pass for the things it has done which added to the Palestinian's hate for them. It's not all simply about supporting Hamas. Shooting people dead and taking their land to settle on does not endear you to them. Israel is not without fault in all of this either.
     
  2. Baron Scicluna

    Baron Scicluna Well-Known Member

    Hamas forces the people to be human shields. They haven’t permitted an election since 2006. Let’s not underestimate the fear that they are capable of instilling in the people they rule.

    Why aren’t they taking to the streets demanding that Hamas release the hostages and surrender? Is it because they all hate Israel, or are they afraid they’ll be killed by the very people who are ruling them? Rock, meet Hard Place.
     
    WriteThinking likes this.
  3. Batman

    Batman Well-Known Member

    Princeton students: We're going on a hunger strike.
    Princeton administration: OK. Have fun.
    Princeton students: We'll starve ourselves!
    Princeton administration: Yeah. We heard you.
    Princeton students: We mean it!

     
    OscarMadison likes this.
  4. The Big Ragu

    The Big Ragu Moderator Staff Member

    1) He said that polling from Gaza (and the West Bank) that support for Hamas needs to be taken with a "grain of salt" because people are not free to speak out. I was responding to that. Hamas is not monitoring people to that degree, where when people come through doing interviews, people are answering with a gun to their heads. In fact, a pretty typical percentage of people just flat-out freely decline to be interviewed.
    2) "Shooting people dead and taking their land to settle?" That is not only pure nonsense, it's actually dangerous nonsense when people like you repeat that kind of trope. Really?!? Arabs and Jews (and even some Christians) were living side by side when "Palestine" was a British territory. Everyone felt they have some claim to the area for biblical reasons. Golda Meir used to pointedly say that SHE was a Palestinian. ... she had a Palestinian passport before Israel was created. Jews didn't come running in and shoot Arabs dead. You really believe that fiction? There was a plan to partition what was Palestine that most of the rest of the world signed on to after the Holocaust, and there would have been TWO countries there, creating a Jewish state (which Jews wanted after what happened in Europe) and an Arab state for the Arabs who lived there. The Jews there said, OK let's do it. ... The Arabs (and the neighboring countries) said hell no, and they were the ones who attacked. I get that Arabs hate Jews. And I am not saying that Jews didn't drive the Arabs out of the area. ... But the civil war in Palestine in 1947 and the Arab-Israeli War was not that bullshit that Jewish interlopers came and shot Arabs dead. The Arabs were the ones who attacked. ... the Jewish settlers fought back. And Israel declared its independence along the lines of the UN's partition plan in 1948. The reality of the Nakba isn't that bullshit. ... it's that the Arabs wouldn't accept coexistence with Jews, they chose to attack and fight instead, they lost, and then the Jews drove them out forecably because they kept attacking them.
     
    X-Hack likes this.
  5. Regan MacNeil

    Regan MacNeil Well-Known Member

    Oh, for fuck's sake.
     
  6. outofplace

    outofplace Well-Known Member

    What part of his post do you have a problem with? This isn't saying that Israel has been perfect, but it has a right to exist and Jewish people have every bit the tradition and religious claim to the area that anyone else does. If you don't think they had to defend themselves many, many times, you don't know the history.
     
  7. Regan MacNeil

    Regan MacNeil Well-Known Member

    My mistake. I shouldn't have posted anything. You guys have fun talking past each other. Very productive. Detente is imminent.
     
  8. outofplace

    outofplace Well-Known Member

    Seriously, what part of his post or mine do you dispute? I'm genuinely curious.
     
  9. Inky_Wretch

    Inky_Wretch Well-Known Member

    I believe @Neutral Corner was referring to settlers increasing their footprint by attacking Gazans.
     
  10. The Big Ragu

    The Big Ragu Moderator Staff Member

    There are no Israeli settlers (or settlements) in Gaza.

    They had about 20 settlements in Gaza that they dismantled in 2005, and the settlers who tried to refuse compensation packages and voluntarily leave were forceably evicted by Israeli security forces.
     
  11. Inky_Wretch

    Inky_Wretch Well-Known Member

    But there have been reports of settlers attacking Palestinians, right?
     
  12. The Big Ragu

    The Big Ragu Moderator Staff Member

    That's the West Bank, not Gaza. There are about 450,000 Israeli settlers in the West Bank (there are also a much smaller number of settlers in the Golan Heights in Syria), something Israel should have never allowed in the first place. But that's the West Bank, not Gaza, and yeah, there are a bunch of violent nutjobs among them.
     
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