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Meanwhile on the International front....

Discussion in 'Sports and News' started by DanOregon, Apr 28, 2023.

  1. justgladtobehere

    justgladtobehere Well-Known Member

    The whole issue of the term 'zionism' wrapped up.
    My understanding of Zionism is from reading 'The Chosen One' in high school and the kid's father was against Israel because he believed Jews would only return to the Holy Land with the Second Coming. Did I get that right?
     
  2. Justin_Rice

    Justin_Rice Well-Known Member

    Exactly.

    Neither side is going to resolve their problems by killing enough of the other.

    We tried that tactic for 20 years. Terrorism won the War on Terror.
     
  3. The Big Ragu

    The Big Ragu Moderator Staff Member

    One of the two "sides" has never accepted the right of the other "side" to exist and is committed to its destruction.

    Ths isn't two morally equivalent "sides" trying to kill each other like the Capulets and Montagues.

    If October 7 doesn't happen -- 1200 people murdered in a brazen terrorist attack, including babies and children, women raped, hostages dragged out of their homes into Gaza, where they are still being held -- Israel wouldn't be trying to "resolve their problems by killing enough of the other."

    Israelis aren't living in your passive observer world of "tactics." They see an existential threat to their existence right across their border staring them in the face. It's a much more immediate threat than even the War on Terror you are talking about, in which the U.S. was dealing with terrorists hiding in mountains half a world away.

    If you want to tell me that you think that the scale of Israel's military response has gone way too far, OK. It's certainly legit to see it that way.

    But the way you have worded your posts has created moral equivalencies that I just don't see. If someone standing right next to you is constantly saying that you have no right to exist, and one day punches you in the face, you aren't thinking, "We are two sides. How am I going to tactically respond to that other side."
     
    Dyno, MileHigh, Alma and 2 others like this.
  4. X-Hack

    X-Hack Well-Known Member

    The book is "The Chosen" by Chaim Potok. And yes, one kid's father was opposed to establishing a state of Israel after the Holocaust without the coming of the Messiah (he was a fictional character who was the head of a fictional Hasidic sect with that belief. In real life, that was not a common belief, but it was the belief of some, though not all Hasidic sects -- some of whom lived and still live in Jerusalem and B'nei B'rak). In the 1982 film adaptation, which was pretty good, but not as good as the novel itself or the sequel novel, "The Promise," the Hasidic kid was played by Robby Benson and his father, the Rebbe, was played by Rod Steiger.
     
  5. Justin_Rice

    Justin_Rice Well-Known Member


    All of that can be true, and yet Israel will still never solve its problems by blowing up the correct number of Palestinians.
     
  6. wicked

    wicked Well-Known Member

    Bill Maher gets his ass handed to him.

     
    Kato likes this.
  7. Driftwood

    Driftwood Well-Known Member

    It might be nice to see some campus protests for what's going on in Haiti. You know, the place in our own hemisphere where a lot of migrants who come here are fleeing for their lives.
    Maybe instead of protesting for the Middle East, they could go to class at these universities and learn about the Roosevelt Corollary with a splash of Monroe Doctrine on the side.
     
    OscarMadison and Liut like this.
  8. outofplace

    outofplace Well-Known Member

    They can take a step in the right direction by killing the right ones. Unfortunately, they are killing too many of the wrong ones in the process. Who do you think keeps making sure it happens that way? I'll give you one guess and it isn't Israel.
     
  9. Neutral Corner

    Neutral Corner Well-Known Member

    Israel certainly plays a part in it. You can go after the targeted individuals, doing your best to do limited collateral damage, or you can kill people in wholesale lots and hope some of the targeted are included in the dead. It's a choice.
     
  10. outofplace

    outofplace Well-Known Member

    The problem is that some of the real targets are almost definitely hiding outside of Gaza in places that it is an entirely different matter if Israel goes in and starts killing people.
     
    Neutral Corner likes this.
  11. The Big Ragu

    The Big Ragu Moderator Staff Member

    It's a great book. Mrs. Ragu read it within the last year for the first time.

    To me, the movie is great, but more for its unintentional comedy value of Robby Benson as a Hasidic Jew. It was even funnier than Robby Benson as a major DI school basketball player in One on One, Robby Benson as a southerner from Mississippi in Ode to Billy Joe, Robby Benson as an American Indian in Running Brave and Robby Benson as a Chicano in Walk Proud.

    The Chosen actually manages to be even funnier despite Robby Benson actually being Jewish.
     
    Last edited: May 14, 2024
    OscarMadison and Neutral Corner like this.
  12. wicked

    wicked Well-Known Member

    Mossad has been known to use fake passports to get to Hamas targets.

    Ireland orders Israeli diplomat out of embassy over forged passports

    They're not the only ones, I imagine, but the point is that they can get to these guys if they want to.
     
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