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Meanwhile on the International front....

Discussion in 'Sports and News' started by DanOregon, Apr 28, 2023.

  1. Azrael

    Azrael Well-Known Member

    What exactly is the plan? free link

    https://wapo.st/3WMu2LF

    JERUSALEM — It was last December when the Israeli military declared victory in the Jabalya refugee camp, saying it had broken Hamas’s grip on its traditional stronghold in the northern Gaza Strip.

    “Jabalya is not the Jabalya it used to be,” Brig. Gen. Itzik Cohen, commander of Division 162, said at the time, adding that “hundreds of terrorists” had been killed and 500 suspects arrested.

    Five months later, Israeli forces are back in Jabalya. Ground troops are pushing into the densely packed camp, backed by artillery and airstrikes — one in a string of recent “re-clearing” operations launched by the Israel Defense Forces against Hamas, whose fighters have rapidly regrouped in areas vacated by the IDF.

    Israel’s fast-moving offensive in Gaza has given way to a grinding battle of attrition, highlighting how far it remains from its chief military aim — the complete dismantling of Hamas. As an adaptable militant organization that has easy access to recruits, an expansive tunnel network and is deeply embedded in the fabric of Gaza, Hamas has shown it can weather a protracted and devastating war.

     
  2. The Big Ragu

    The Big Ragu Moderator Staff Member

    Netanyahu has actually been really clear. Like in the video of the interview I posted yesterday,

    The plan is to eradicate Hamas.

    It may not be an easy thing to do, or it may prove impossible, or they may just really suck at it, or they may have handcuffs on them because the pressure to announce what they are going to do in advance and try to move people out of the way is helping Hamas run and hide.

    But a plan that isn't working well enough for people who oppose them trying to eradicate Hamas because of all the killing and damage they are doing in the process, doesn't equal "no plan."

    They went into Jabalya, cleared out Hamas in November, moved on afterward, and Hamas reconstituted itself there and is launching rockets from the camp. So now they (very unhappily) are saying, "Fuck, we have to go back in there." Same as he was saying yesterday, that Hamas has four battalions in Rafah, and they have to go in there.

    It's actually been a pretty single-minded plan. ... Rid Gaza of Hamas.
     
  3. Azrael

    Azrael Well-Known Member

    Due respect to the relevant parties, that's a goal, not a plan.

    What's the plan to eradicate Hamas?

    How will it be done?
     
    2muchcoffeeman likes this.
  4. garrow

    garrow Well-Known Member

  5. swingline

    swingline Well-Known Member

    Bobby Sands from the Wayback Machine!

    I hadn’t thought of him in decades.
     
  6. Spartan Squad

    Spartan Squad Well-Known Member

    Netanyahu: We have a plan to win.

    World: Oh wow great. Will you surgically go into Gaza to target key leaders and disrupt Hamas’ ability to fight while protecting civilians caught in the middle?

    Bibi: Sort of… we’re can’t go in surgically.

    World: but you will protect civilians?

    The plan:[​IMG]
     
  7. The Big Ragu

    The Big Ragu Moderator Staff Member

    I am not sure what you are looking for.

    The plan is obviously to send their military in wherever Hamas shows its face. Keep them on the run, keep hunting them down.

    Hamas sets up and starts launching rockets from the Jabalya camp. ... and they go in there. They clear Gaza City of Hamas and what is left hunkers down in Rafah. ... they are saying they are going to go in there.

    You may think their plan can't work. But it's absurd to say they are doing this without a "plan." Wherever Hamas is. ... they have been sending their military after them.
     
    Batman likes this.
  8. Michael_ Gee

    Michael_ Gee Well-Known Member

    I wrote this months ago on this board and events keep supporting my position. The logic of the situation keeps driving Israel towards the ethnic cleansing and absorption of Gaza into Israel, not even necessarily because that's what Israelis want, but because that's all that's left on their current track that offers any stability to them. Not much stability, mind you, but that's as close as they could get to the goal of "eliminating Hamas." You can't eliminate an ideology, and the war itself has insured that violent hatred and armed conflict with Israel will be the dominant, perhaps only ideology in Gaza for many many years to come.
     
    swingline likes this.
  9. The Big Ragu

    The Big Ragu Moderator Staff Member

    "Ethnic cleanings" isn't a prospect people should be throwing around so loosely in a speculative way.

    In the interview yesterday, Netanyahu reiterated that they can't just pull out and let Hamas (and Iran, as he represents it) take over Gaza again. He said the way this can resolve is a Palestinian State where they govern themselves, but Israel retains “responsibility of overall security." i.e. -- he wants to point guns at them until Israel feels safe. He would like the rest of the Arab world as a partner to help stablize Gaza and keep Iran out.

    Obviously, Hamas (and the majority of Palestinians) are not cool with that. But his rhetoric has not been anything close to "ethnic cleansing" and even with tens of thousands of people dead out of millions, it hardly suggests an ethnic cleansing plan. ... and in fact, they have been pushing humanitarian aid into Gaza (under pressure, but they are doing a lot) and pushing Egypt to open the Rafah Crossing to let more aid in.

    FWIW, I saw an interview with Richard Haass of all people, too, yesterday. ... and he was discussing the whole "plan" thing, Netanyahu would tell you that the "plan" is to hunt down Hamas and keep going after them until they are gone.

    The Biden adminstration has been all over the place (as the political winds shift on them), but now is pushing a political resolution of some sort to end this.

    And Haass was saying that for the first time the Israeli defense minister has been openly disagreeing with Netanyahu saying that the idea that you can do this sequentially and rid Gaza of Hamas and THEN think about what comes after makes no sense, they need to have a plan for what happens next in place today. If you want the Arab countries to help you police Gaza as a partner (what Netanyahu was saying he wants in that interview), they will only do it if Netanyahu starts talking about a Palestinian state today. The obvious problem for Netanyahu is that if he even hints at that, his coalition that makes him the PM will crack and they might end up with new elections.
     
    Last edited: May 16, 2024
  10. Michael_ Gee

    Michael_ Gee Well-Known Member

    Actions speak louder than words. IDF is rendering Gaza close to uninhabitable by civilians and has, as we have seen, proven unable to prevent Hamas from operating after eight months. A prolonged occupation of Gaza will cost Israeli lives and a significant amount of Israeli treasure. The only possible way Gaza could some day be rendered a self-governing entity not irrevocably hostile to Israel is a prolonged occupation and rebuild by international forces both military and civilian. I don't see a lot of volunteers for that in the international community.
     
  11. Hermes

    Hermes Well-Known Member

    Netanyahu Bush reiterated that they can't just pull out and let Hamas Al-Qaeda…take over Gaza Iraq again. He said the way this can resolve is a Palestinian Iraqi State where they govern themselves, but Israel America retains “responsibility of overall security."

    We as a species learn nothing. History is a waste of time studying. Eat at Arby’s.
     
    wicked likes this.
  12. The Big Ragu

    The Big Ragu Moderator Staff Member

    Al Queda wasn't on our border staring us in the face.
     
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