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Muh Muh Muh My Corona (virus)

Discussion in 'Sports and News' started by Twirling Time, Jan 21, 2020.

  1. The Big Ragu

    The Big Ragu Moderator Staff Member

    That letter (and we are talking about only 27 people) was a bunch of scientists who got very defensive, very quickly, very early on, and were trying to stand up for their colleagues (when there was a lot of idiocy about them having unleashed a manmade virus deliberately). I pointed that out (on here) at the time -- that they were being tribal and defensive.

    It also didn't offer any evidence of anything. It was a bunch of guys shouting. Just as there were a lot of ignorant people shouting CHINA! loudly. It was noise.

    Those 27 signatories were being tribal, but I don't think they were lying. You could see whatever you wanted to see if you were starting with a conclusion and working your way backward. You could easily have sequenced the virus and concluded it was consistent with a zoonatic jump. They took it a step beyond, and defensively tried to shout down anyone else with the "conspiracy theory" stuff. But there WERE a lot of unfounded conspiracy theories in 2020. You had people saying that China created a virus and deliberately unleashed it on the world (there is zero evidence of this), and it was their colleagues who were getting hit with those accusations.

    None of that was evidence of anything. I know I was tuning it all out and just trying to find and read things that provided actual evidence of where the virus came from. I thought it was pretty important at the time, because if it was a lab leak we all had a vested interest in identifying it and trying to make sure it doesn't happen again.
     
    Last edited: Jun 3, 2024
  2. Inky_Wretch

    Inky_Wretch Well-Known Member

    This is a key point that somehow gets overlooked as people argue.
     
    dixiehack likes this.
  3. Alma

    Alma Well-Known Member

    Here's the wording:

    The rapid, open, and transparent sharing of data on this outbreak is now being threatened by rumours and misinformation around its origins. We stand together to strongly condemn conspiracy theories suggesting that COVID-19 does not have a natural origin.

    Had the scientists wanted to tighten the scope to merely intentional lab leak, they could have. They didn't.

    In summer 2020, the conversation surrounding COVID was mostly fixated on bad people throwing parties in the Ozarks or eating at Olive Garden and Fauci on the InStyle cover as The Good Doctor.
     
  4. Alma

    Alma Well-Known Member

    To say it's a "conspiracy theory" that the virus didn't have a natural origin is, if not a lie, a gross manipulation or gross ignorance.

    It's hard to see how it's much different than the WMD conversation from years before, except of course that Republicans are The Bads and scientists - many of whom would have been Democrats - ate The Goods.

    Cue up, of course, the Sports Illustrated article in April 2020 that suggested playing baseball and football might kill millions.
     
  5. Alma

    Alma Well-Known Member

    You're assuming facts not in the Lancet letter. What the letter says is "does not have a natural origin."

    Which means a lab leak would also be a conspiracy theory.
     
  6. BTExpress

    BTExpress Well-Known Member

    sj.com version

     
    HanSenSE likes this.
  7. The Big Ragu

    The Big Ragu Moderator Staff Member

    There was a lot of "gross ignorance" or whatever you want to call it in 2020. You had a moron president trying to politicize a pandemic and spreading misinformation about a virus.

    Those scientists, as far as I know (and you couldn't possibly know) didn't have a political motive. You are just creating your own narrative about them. They were largely virologists and infectious diseases experts who were part of a tight knit community (they knew the scientists in China -- they all were working on the same kinds of things) and they saw a lot of conspiracy theories and things outright slandering their colleagues and they signed that ill-conceived letter.

    Several of them signed their names to it because they simply wanted to dispel the conspiracy theories they were seeing, but Peter Daszak insisted on a broader statement, and they actually might not have known the statement was changed on them.

    And in fairness, several of them publicly changed their positions in the coming months. In 2021, Bernard Roizman actually said he had come to believe that they were likely working on the virus in a lab and some sloppy individual brought it out. Charles Calisher did a complete 180 and said that it was more likely that it came out of the lab in Wuhan. There were several others, too.

    I have yet to see some of the morons who were promulgating outrageous conspiracy theories be anywhere close to how honest some of those scientists were when they realized they had put their names on something they shouldn't have.
     
  8. HanSenSE

    HanSenSE Well-Known Member

    There is so much we know now about the virus that we didn't know when it first hit. As an essential worker, it was crazy. Wiping down the counter after every customer, having baggers redeployed to wiping down shopping carts, etc. And, of course, with CFTFG, it was all a plot by Chyna. He spent too much time going down that rabbit hole. Besides, it was going to be contained to 15 cases, right? And a couple of shots of Clorox would fix it.
     
  9. Inky_Wretch

    Inky_Wretch Well-Known Member

    I'm not talking about the Lancet letter. I'm talking about regular old Joe Blows who got their degrees in virology from Twitter and Facebook.
     
    HanSenSE likes this.
  10. Azrael

    Azrael Well-Known Member


    This same piece has been written a dozen times by now. It recaps what some of us think we know, adds some unsupported inferences and has to run under a headline with the word "probably" in it.

    My Guy Hotez™ not havin' it.

    x.com
     
  11. Alma

    Alma Well-Known Member

    IMO, Hotez is wrong, but the point is, at the beginning, exploring the lab leak was verboten. The Lancet letter contributed to the "off limits" nature of the discussion.

    And of course the NYT piece has to use the word "probably." It's science, for one, and it's needed to keep people like Hotez from fainting.
     
  12. Azrael

    Azrael Well-Known Member


    While several natural spillover scenarios remain plausible, and we still don’t know enough about the full extent of virus research conducted at the Wuhan institute by Dr. Shi’s team and other researchers, a laboratory accident is the most parsimonious explanation of how the pandemic began.
     
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