Ukraine Always Get What You Want

Oops. it’s like Russia is buying equipment from Acme.

‘World’s deadliest weapon’ explodes during testing in Russia

 

“We’re stuck in that war unless I’m president. I’ll get it done, I’ll get it negotiated, I’ll get out. We gotta get out.”

 

"Somebody told me the other day" should be disqualifying on its own.

 

They said "Sir."

 

At the risk of wading into the usual political quicksand, what is the other side's plan for ending this war? Because there doesn't seem to be one beyond "send them more weapons and ammo," which doesn't really seem like a good strategy for this particular war.

There is no scenario where Ukraine is marching troops in a victory parade through Red Square. Even if, by some miracle, they're about to, then Russia is launching nukes. If it winds up as NATO vs. Russia, then it's full-blown World War III. Nukes are still flying, and even if they don't half the Western governments in Europe are likely to be overthrown.
The Biden administration has already crossed lines it said it would never cross (sending tanks, sending F-16s, allowing the use of long-range weapons to attack inside Russia itself) and Harris has said she'd continue that plan if she's elected. There's not only been no mention of peace talks — IIRC, Biden said he hasn't talked to Putin since before the war started — but the presidential candidate who suggests it is labeled a Russian pawn.

I'm sympathetic to Ukraine's plight, but what exactly is the endgame for this thing for the U.S.?

 

Russia out. Returns disputed territories to Ukraine, including Crimea.

https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefing...t-summit-on-peace-in-ukraine-opening-plenary/

 

Approximately how much of the Ukraine should we be willing to surrender?

 

Ukraine and Russia will eventually have to reach some kind of settlement talks. If the west continues to support and supply Ukraine, they will be negotiating a resolution. If not, they will be negotiating a surrender.

Wars sometimes last a while.

And let’s be clear, America hasn't exactly been making huge sacrifices here. There have been a few dozen US citizens killed in the fighting, most as irregulars who went over on their own. Even the aid we are providing is in the form of military goodies that our defense contractors either sell to them or otherwise replenish Uncle Sam’s larder. Think of it as a down payment now to avoid having to take on a stronger, more entrenched Russia later.

 

The endgame for Ukraine is control of its land — all of it. There’s no endgame for the USA because it’s not our direct fight.

 

In 1992, the Soviet Union collapsed and suddenly Ukraine was the world’s third largest nuclear power.

In the name of anti-proliferation, us and the Soviets assured Ukraine of its sovereignty if they would surrender their new-found nuclear arsenal.

To allow Russia to now take Ukraine by strength of arms is completely unacceptable, even if it makes libertarians a little uneasy. Otherwise you’re telling every country in the world, “ehhh sorry; guess you shoulda made nukes.”

 

The end game is Russia out of Ukraine with Ukraine dictating the terms and hopefully the Russian people having enough of Putin.

 

Except we've given them $55.7 billion in the past 2 1/2 years and it seems like there's no end in sight — either to the war or our contributions. So if it's not our direct fight, it's damn close. We certainly have a stake in it even if we don't (yet) have boots on the ground. At what point does someone, somewhere, say, "Hey, let's talk about what it's going to take to wind this thing down, even if that means making some unpopular choices?"
Right now it feels like the goal is to keep pushing until World War III does break out.