Pete Rose is dead

Pete Rose always talked about how much of a winner he was, how much he was driven to win. I know some folks like to say, well, if he bet on his team to win, what's the big deal?
Of course, if he's such a winner, how driven would he be to win...the bet? What if winning the bet is all that matters? Then he's the smartest guy in the room, too. Aren't dives easier to pull off, and more of a sure thing when you're leveraged? What if his entire persona - Charlie Hustle - was that he played that way because he always had a pile of money riding on it? Is anything real?

And I would say that anyone willing to take Pete at face value that he's telling the truth he only bet on his team to win is a bit of a stretch. What, Pete Rose lie?

I don't much care about the HOF anymore because it's just going to always be weirdly incomplete forever. And, really, until Bowie Kuhn and Bud Selig are removed, what do any of the HOF debates matter?

 

Rose belongs in the Hall of Fame. Jerk of a person or not, that doesn't change the fact that he has more hits than anyone ever has or will.
He was - and rightfully so - banned from working in baseball. Being in a museum in not working in baseball. Put on his plaque he was banned for gambling on baseball. Tell the whole story. That's the point of a museum.
Halls of fame are subjective jokes. All-time greats not unanimous selections? Killers getting in because murder isn't prohibited on a sign? Paper pushers getting in ahead a legends?

 

I grew up watching and admiring the Big Red Machine roll over my Giants. Rose was a big part of them. I appreciated his talents (all-star at 3B,2B and 1B) and his hustle. 4200 hits is amazing , 21 years of 200 hits.

But I didn’t like the Hit King moniker. The betting which would affect the integrity of the very game itself was/is so wrong. Then the tax fraud and the sex with at least one minor is abhorrent.

The HOF isn’t just for betting it’s his utter failure to admit his faults and his attacks instead on MLB. Zero remorse. Why are others carrying his water doing what he wouldn’t? I don’t care about his legacy.

 

Again, qt, it isn't about carrying Rose's water. It's about the desire to make Cooperstown more representative of the sport's greatest players.

I can't speak for others, but nothing I've said in the past 18 hours has defended Pete Rose the man, or suggested he should be "rewarded." This is actually about more than Pete Rose.

 

Exactly what @jr/shotglass said. If you make a list of the 100 greatest baseball players of all time and it does not include Pete Rose or Barry Bonds, said list is simply wrong.

 

Bump, because he was a narcissistic shit heel of a human being until the very end.

Rose shirks statutory rape query at Phillies fete

I'm of the mindset that guys like Rose, Bonds, Clemens, etc. should have plaques in the Hall, with warts and all. You can't really tell the history of the game without acknowledging them. I realize that's not going to happen, though.

 

He'll be in the Hall within a year, maybe two, in the newly built * Wing.

 

That's actually two great ideas for exhibits inside of HOF that aren't connected to the plaques.

1. Betting on the game, focusing on guys like Hal Chase, the Black Sox and Pete Rose.
2. The steriod era, focusing on guys like Clemens, Bonds, Sosa, McGwire, et al.

As you said, that's part of the history of the game. And honestly, I find the wall of plaques to be the least interesting part of the museum. I'd rather spend eight hours pouring through the library.

Also, don't know if it's been mentioned, but someone on Facebook this morning posted, "Well, I guess that lifetime ban doesn't matter now."

 

My only additional notes:

A lot of people (here and elsewhere) have said it’s terrible to bring up Rose’s faults just after he died.

My take (and rose was my first sports hero) is that when he was chasing Cobb’s record, he insinuated that Cobb was burning in hell for being a horrible person.

To me, that’s fair game to call out Rose now.

Also, it was always fun to try and copy Rose’s signature as a kid because it was basically two asses and some letters.

 

I think you are right. I would have no problem with it if Joe Jackson, Barry Bonds, and Roger Clemens went in first or right along with him. The Hall is a joke without those guys, especially Bonds.

 

The all-time leader in hits needs to be in but not the all-time leader in home runs?

 

Nope.
Neither one.