Glavine, Maddux & Smoltz

WCV: ... and you can add Neagle/Millwood to that collection, too. Wasn't a bunch of stiffs by any means, and Avery was lights-out in four postseasons.

re: original topic, not a chance anybody waits a year to vote them in as a threesome if Smoltz doesn't retire. (I think Glavine and Maddux definitely will.) Smoltzie ain't a lock anyway -- that 200-150 thing is nice but the Eckersley comparison isn't favorable to him (390SV-197W > 207W-154SV) and that's the only way he's got a shot.

And sorry Slappy, all three have a better case than Jack Morris.

 

Glavine is going to get in easily, or at least he should. He has over 300 victories at a time when fewer and fewer pitchers are even getting close. He has two Cy Young awards and a World Series ring, and finished second in the Cy Young voting twice and third two more times.

Smoltz is a tougher call because of his unique career path, but he does have a Cy Young award and a World Series ring and a very good 3.26 career ERA. And when he did close, he was dominant in that role. He is also 15-4 with a 2.65 ERA in the playoffs.

The comparison with Morris is interesting because he has more wins than Smoltz and he also had his share of post-season heroics, but the 3.90 ERA does hold him back. He also never finished higher than third in the Cy Young voting.

All three should go, but I think it is fair to put Morris behind Smoltz and Glavine. And Maddux doesn't even need to be discussed. Too easy a call.

As for the idea of waiting to put all three in together, I get the thought behind it, but no, I wouldn't agree with manipulating it that way.

 

I wonder what type of career Gant would have had if he didn't break his leg.

 

I agree, but Jack Morris not being in IS a travesty.

 

And, he's a left-hander.

Much more difficult to put up such numbers.

That's simply a statistical fact in today's game.

 

Jack Morris should be in too.

And IMO Smoltz deserves it over Maddux and Glavine (though all 3 should make it at some point). Smoltz has a far better postseason record than Maddux and Glavine (the latter two's playoff struggles were a big reason why those Braves teams only won the one championship), plus Smoltz was outstanding as a closer as well as a starter.

 

Warren Spahn, 363
Steve Carlton, 329
Eddie Plank, 326
Tom Glavine, 303
Lefty Grove, 300

That's it.

 

That's a laugh.

Maddux's postseason ERA is 3.34 (in 192 IP), Glavine's is 3.42 (in 218.1 IP). ... The great Jack Morris? 3.80, in a much smaller sampler size (92 IP).

Not their fault the Braves couldn't score runs in the postseason.

 

He's also been remarkably consistent: made 30 or more starts in all but one season (1989) ---- not counting 1994-95 ---- of 18.

 

Have three pitchers from the same staff been inducted in the Hall of Fame before? I don't mean in the same year, just in general?

 

Don Sutton, Don Drysdale, Sandy Koufax

 

Yeah, a massive over-generalization, though I'll grant that Maddux's face-plants in Game 1 of the 2000 NLDS and Game 4 of the 2001 NLCS and Glavine's in the 2000 and 2002 LDSes were hard to forget. Still, they were solid-to-great in the postseason until 2000 and they pitched well and lost several times after that.

As for Smoltz, I'd say his 15-4, 2.65 postseason record puts an otherwise-borderline guy over the top.