Denise Rich gives up US citizenship

93Devil · Jul 9, 2012

The Big Ragu said:

This is due to U.S. tax law. We either fix it, or people will choose the option she did.

Austria isn't a tax haven. The problem is that the U.S. taxes its citizens based on their worldwide income, as opposed to most countries, including Austria, which tax their citizens based on their income while they are residing in Austria. It's an important distinction. The U.S. taxes you as a citizen, regardless of where you live. Most other places tax you just based on your residency.

She actually lives in London most of the time. If she stays a U.S. citizens, she has to file two tax returns. One for the UK and one for the U.S. If she renounces her U.S. citizenship and sticks with the Austrian citizenship, which the story said she got through her dad, she files one return in the UK and just pays taxes once.

Taxes throughout the world are residency based. The idea is that you use the services of the country where you are actually living. As long as the U.S. insists on slapping its own citizenship-based tax on top of the resident tax you have to pay elsewhere, people like Eduardo Saverin and Denise Rich, who live overseas, are going to say good bye to their U.S. passports.
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And make it a world class pain in the ass every time they want a visa to visit here.

LongTimeListener · Dec 15, 2014

You don't ... have ... to live like a refugee

No baby you don't have to live like a refugeeeeeeee

Armchair_QB · Jul 9, 2012

93Devil said:

The Big Ragu said:

This is due to U.S. tax law. We either fix it, or people will choose the option she did.

Austria isn't a tax haven. The problem is that the U.S. taxes its citizens based on their worldwide income, as opposed to most countries, including Austria, which tax their citizens based on their income while they are residing in Austria. It's an important distinction. The U.S. taxes you as a citizen, regardless of where you live. Most other places tax you just based on your residency.

She actually lives in London most of the time. If she stays a U.S. citizens, she has to file two tax returns. One for the UK and one for the U.S. If she renounces her U.S. citizenship and sticks with the Austrian citizenship, which the story said she got through her dad, she files one return in the UK and just pays taxes once.

Taxes throughout the world are residency based. The idea is that you use the services of the country where you are actually living. As long as the U.S. insists on slapping its own citizenship-based tax on top of the resident tax you have to pay elsewhere, people like Eduardo Saverin and Denise Rich, who live overseas, are going to say good bye to their U.S. passports.
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And make it a world class pain in the ass every time they want a visa to visit here.
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So, basically, government-sanctioned harrassment.

pressmurphy · Jul 9, 2012

Armchair_QB said:

dixiehack said:

Because if you are doing it essentially as a form of tax evasion, and then you come home, the IRS should come down on you with Thor's hammer. If you had citizenship and voluntarily gave it up, I see know reason we have to admit you.
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What if you're here illegally? Should you be allowed to make money?
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Well put.

TigerVols · Jul 9, 2012

Lucas Wiseman said:

The Big Ragu said:

This is due to U.S. tax law. We either fix it, or people will choose the option she did.

Austria isn't a tax haven. The problem is that the U.S. taxes its citizens based on their worldwide income, as opposed to most countries, including Austria, which tax their citizens based on their income while they are residing in Austria. It's an important distinction. The U.S. taxes you as a citizen, regardless of where you live. Most other places tax you just based on your residency.

She actually lives in London most of the time. If she stays a U.S. citizens, she has to file two tax returns. One for the UK and one for the U.S. If she renounces her U.S. citizenship and sticks with the Austrian citizenship, which the story said she got through her dad, she files one return in the UK and just pays taxes once.

Taxes throughout the world are residency based. The idea is that you use the services of the country where you are actually living. As long as the U.S. insists on slapping its own citizenship-based tax on top of the resident tax you have to pay elsewhere, people like Eduardo Saverin and Denise Rich, who live overseas, are going to say good bye to their U.S. passports.
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Perfectly stated.
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So, in other words, Republicans hate "socialist" European tax structures, unless of course they can live under them?

I

Bubbler · Jul 9, 2012

Is there any reason whatsoever I should give a shit about this?

The Big Ragu · Jul 9, 2012

That is quite the straw man, TigerVols.

1) Nobody mentioned Republicans (in fact, Denise Rich was a major donor to Bil Clinton, and basically bought her slimy ex husband a pardon from Clinton as he was leaving office. She's a major donor to the Democratic party, not the Republican party).
2) There is nothing socialist or European about the concept of paying taxes just where you reside. It's the norm. My girlfriend is hardly a Republican. And she is a French citizen. She has resided in the United States for the last 13 years. She doesn't pay France a penny of tax on the income she earns here. She pays the United States taxes, as she should. If France tried to dip its hand into her pocket, and extort money from her on top of the taxes she pays the U.S., it would be problematic in the same way. Except, France (and no other country of consequence) does not do that. Only the United States. As long as the U.S. does that, it is incentive for anyone living abroad to get rid of their U.S. citizenship.

dixiehack · Jul 9, 2012

I have sympathy for illegals trying to make a living here, although I think we should absolutely crank up the E-Verify. But at least those folks think enough of this country to have skin in the game. But someone who has that precious gift and chooses to throw it away? Screw 'em.

Ragu, a question. Do Americans abroad get a break on their U.S. taxes based on what they pay where domiciled, similar to what happens to dividends on foreign stocks?

TigerVols · Jul 9, 2012

The Big Ragu said:

That is quite the straw man, TigerVols.

1) Nobody mentioned Republicans (in fact, Denise Rich was a major donor to Bil Clinton, and basically bought her slimy ex husband a pardon from Clinton as he was leaving office. She's a major donor to the Democratic party, not the Republican party).
2) There is nothing socialist or European about the concept of paying taxes just where you reside. It's the norm. My girlfriend is hardly a Republican. And she is a French citizen. She has resided in the United States for the last 13 years. She doesn't pay France a penny of tax on the income she earns here. She pays the United States taxes, as she should. If France tried to dip its hand into her pocket, and extort money from her on top of the taxes she pays the U.S., it would be problematic in the same way. Except, France (and no other country of consequence) does not do that. Only the United States. As long as the U.S. does that, it is incentive for anyone living abroad to get rid of their U.S. citizenship.
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1) I was referring to the posters slamming the American tax system on this thread. I'm pretty sure most readers knew that.

2) I was referring to the fact said posters were taking a break from complaining that the Socialist in the White House is bringing European style taxes to the United States, in order to defend the self-same European tax system. Again, I'm pretty sure most readers knew that.

93Devil · Jul 9, 2012

Armchair_QB said:

93Devil said:

The Big Ragu said:

This is due to U.S. tax law. We either fix it, or people will choose the option she did.

Austria isn't a tax haven. The problem is that the U.S. taxes its citizens based on their worldwide income, as opposed to most countries, including Austria, which tax their citizens based on their income while they are residing in Austria. It's an important distinction. The U.S. taxes you as a citizen, regardless of where you live. Most other places tax you just based on your residency.

She actually lives in London most of the time. If she stays a U.S. citizens, she has to file two tax returns. One for the UK and one for the U.S. If she renounces her U.S. citizenship and sticks with the Austrian citizenship, which the story said she got through her dad, she files one return in the UK and just pays taxes once.

Taxes throughout the world are residency based. The idea is that you use the services of the country where you are actually living. As long as the U.S. insists on slapping its own citizenship-based tax on top of the resident tax you have to pay elsewhere, people like Eduardo Saverin and Denise Rich, who live overseas, are going to say good bye to their U.S. passports.
Click to expand...

And make it a world class pain in the ass every time they want a visa to visit here.
Click to expand...

So, basically, government-sanctioned harrassment.
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Do you know anyone who has tried to travel to the United States for extended stays? I do. A lot of them. They are already being harassed.

Armchair_QB · Jul 9, 2012

93Devil said:

Armchair_QB said:

93Devil said:

The Big Ragu said:

This is due to U.S. tax law. We either fix it, or people will choose the option she did.

Austria isn't a tax haven. The problem is that the U.S. taxes its citizens based on their worldwide income, as opposed to most countries, including Austria, which tax their citizens based on their income while they are residing in Austria. It's an important distinction. The U.S. taxes you as a citizen, regardless of where you live. Most other places tax you just based on your residency.

She actually lives in London most of the time. If she stays a U.S. citizens, she has to file two tax returns. One for the UK and one for the U.S. If she renounces her U.S. citizenship and sticks with the Austrian citizenship, which the story said she got through her dad, she files one return in the UK and just pays taxes once.

Taxes throughout the world are residency based. The idea is that you use the services of the country where you are actually living. As long as the U.S. insists on slapping its own citizenship-based tax on top of the resident tax you have to pay elsewhere, people like Eduardo Saverin and Denise Rich, who live overseas, are going to say good bye to their U.S. passports.
Click to expand...

And make it a world class pain in the ass every time they want a visa to visit here.
Click to expand...

So, basically, government-sanctioned harrassment.
Click to expand...

Do you know anyone who has tried to travel to the United States for extended stays? I do. A lot of them. They are already being harassed.
Click to expand...

Except you want her singled out for harsher treatment than the law requires simply because she renounced her citizenship for tax reasons. That is government harassment any way you cut it.

LongTimeListener · Jul 9, 2012

She renounced her citizenship. The reason doesn't really matter. Non-citizens get treated differently.

There are other issues where you seem to be quite OK with government-sanctioned harassment. But those citizens are brown, so I guess I can understand the distinction.

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Denise Rich gives up US citizenship

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