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Chevy Volt a Failure - GM to Layoff 1,300

Discussion in 'Sports and News' started by Evil Bastard (aka Chris_L), Mar 2, 2012.

  1. YankeeFan

    YankeeFan Well-Known Member

    Reminds me of Reagan's joke about getting a car in Russia:

    Its hard to get an automobile in the soviet union. They are owned mainly by elite bureaucrats. It takes an average of 10 years to get a car. 1 out of 7 families owned automobiles. You have to go through a major process and put the money out in advance. so this man did this and the dealer said "okay in 10 years come get your car."
    "Morning or afternoon?" The man replied.
    "well what difference does it make?" Said the dealer.
    "The plumber is coming in the morning."
     
  2. bigpern23

    bigpern23 Well-Known Member

    To be fair, pre-orders are not uncommon in the automobile or many other industries. It hardly makes it a circus act.
     
  3. YankeeFan

    YankeeFan Well-Known Member

    With what kind of lead time?
     
  4. old_tony

    old_tony Well-Known Member

    Meanwhile, back to the original subject of this thread, the Volt.

    We are now being told that the 2016 Volt is going to be so far advanced and a lower sticker price, and that's why buyers are holding off on buying the 2015 Volt. Yeah, sure.

    Fewer than 3,000 of the 2015 model had sold when this story was published three months ago.

    The 2015 Chevy Volt: Why This Car is Struggling to Sell

     
  5. bigpern23

    bigpern23 Well-Known Member

    18 months for a Lamborghini Aventador. I mean, it's a Lamborghini, but still.
     
  6. JohnHammond

    JohnHammond Well-Known Member

    Took a good look at a Volt a few weeks ago. Would have pulled the trigger, except you can only seat two in the back as the console extends to the back seats.. The 2016 Volts, though, will seat three in the back.
     
  7. The Big Ragu

    The Big Ragu Moderator Staff Member

    Keep in mind that Elon Musk has never delivered anything he promised on the timetable he promised. He's PT Barnum, alright. So I wouldn't count on them producing the lower-priced sedan anytime soon -- let alone on any timetable he throws out there.

    It requires Tesla to be able to produce batteries cheaply and on a mass scale, and they aren't even in the ballpark of ever being able to do that. It's a dream -- not a reality. All we have are pie-in-the-sky promises and endless hype -- every few weeks he hypes up his stock value with a tweet promising something years from now. Nothing tangible says he can or will be able to deliver this latest miracle. Nor does Tesla have a history of delivering on anything he promises. He simply pushes back timetables over and over again -- and then borrows more money to keep the company afloat.

    There is a saying that good business people underpromise and overdeliver.

    Musk just keeps promising. And he has gotten way more time than any other business would, thanks in part to hundreds of millions of dollars of loans from the U.S. government (that others don't get), preferential tax treatment. ... and most notably, credit markets that have made it ridiculously easy for anyone to borrow -- at low interest -- even when their bonds are rated junk, as his are. In his case, BILLIONS of dollars have gone into producing less than 100,000 cars in the 12 years the company has been around.

    Tesla has burned through a mind-boggling amount of cash. It has more than $2 billion in debt (all junk) on its books. When it needed more money a few months ago, because its burn rate keeps accelerating, rather than go to the debt markets again -- which actually would have funded yet more of the nonsense, thanks to the Federal Reserve distorting the credit markets -- it instead decided to dilute its stock value by issuing another half a billion dollars in stock. And of course the casino that the stock market has become, ate it up rather than treating it for what it was -- a company that had just diluted its stock value, punishing anyone who already owned shares! We are in bizarro world.

    Even if you forget the equity valuation, which is ridiculous (and people will look back and laugh). That much debt is just not a good formula for anything when you are years away from delivering on endless nebulous promises.

    What I am saying has zero to do with how elegant the cars they actually have produced are or aren't, or whether electric cars are psychically good things. It's just common sense. You can't run up debt forever and not produce profits to simply be able to service all of that debt. Eventually, in a NORMAL world, nobody is going keep lending to you and you are going to crash.

    We are in a bubble world right now, and this is the poster child for it -- both in terms of the junk debt it has ridden to stay in business, and the ridiculous valuation of its stock. It can only keep up with borrowing and diluting its stock value -- and putting off living up to the hype year after year with the PT Barnum act -- as long as that bubble is in force. And maybe it lasts a bit longer -- the Federal Reserve could announce QE4 tomorrow. But when the central bankers lose control of their downward manipulation of rates, and lenders come back to their senses, what is Tesla's plan? If rates tick up just a little -- and it is going to happen at some point -- he's busted.

    Again, that has nothing to do with how beautiful the 80,000 Model S cars it has produced are or aren't. If the company can't produce the car profitably on a mass scale, that is meaningless. All Tesla has produced from a P&L standpoint is a track record of living off a generous ability to borrow money.
     
  8. murphyc

    murphyc Well-Known Member

    Autoweek had a preview of the 2016 Volt the other day, which included this rather alarming (for Chevy) nugget:
    "However, since the Volt’s debut at the very end of 2010, Chevy has only managed to sell 77,000 units, while Toyota sold well over 100,000 Priuses through July of this year alone."

    2016 Chevrolet Volt first drive: More range, more style
     
  9. 93Devil

    93Devil Well-Known Member


    And it's slower off the line than a Tesla. IIRC.
     
  10. da man

    da man Well-Known Member

    Haven't seen a Tesla hit 240 mph yet.
     
  11. LongTimeListener

    LongTimeListener Well-Known Member

    Only because it's capped electronically.

    Tesla just introduced a Model S with 762 horsepower that goes 0-60 in 2.8 seconds. An Aventador is a max of 720 hp with a 0-60 time of 2.8-2.9 seconds.
     
  12. TigerVols

    TigerVols Well-Known Member

    Anyone who thinks Tesla is a failure, hasn't been to Los Angeles lately. They. Are. Everywhere.
     
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