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Running 2015 MLB Regular-Season Thread

Discussion in 'Sports and News' started by doctorquant, Apr 5, 2015.

  1. Spartan Squad

    Spartan Squad Well-Known Member

    And in fairness to your point, I haven't really studied the other pitchers too closely so I went with the fanboi response mixed in with the fact Bumgarner is among the leaders in wins *ducks tomatoes from the sabermetrics people here.*
     
  2. old_tony

    old_tony Well-Known Member

    That list is American League pitchers who only bat in maybe two games a year. Like I said, 2-3 ABs and not in the starting batting order but maybe twice a year.
     
  3. bigpern23

    bigpern23 Well-Known Member

    Relievers get almost no at-bats, even in the NL, because managers usually pinch hit for their spot. Feel free to look through the rest of the teams if you want. I suspect the trend will carry through.

    The point is, when you're comparing even a starting pitcher with 26 ABs to a lineup of position players who get 500-600 ABs in a season, it's not uncommon for pitchers to lead the team in BA. You need a minimum number of ABs to make the sample fair, and pitchers - even National League starters - won't ever reach a reasonable minimum.

    I suspect you will begin setting more and more parameters until Jungmann meets your notion of the rare pitcher who leads his team in BA, but the reality is, it's the case on most teams across the majors because pitchers get so few at bats.
     
  4. old_tony

    old_tony Well-Known Member

    My original parameter was "starting lineup," so you can drop all of your relievers who are 1 for 2, 2 for 3 and 1 for 3. Now start finding me starting pitchers who are batting .300 or above. I suppose you might find someone with 1 start who got a hit in that start. Go for it if that's what makes you feel great.
     
  5. LongTimeListener

    LongTimeListener Well-Known Member

    There are only two pitchers this season who have even 20 at-bats and a BA above .267. Jungmann is at .321 and Latos is at .304. Last year Bumgarner's .258 led all pitchers who batted more than 15 times.

    The idea that "most teams across the majors" have a pitcher leading the team in BA is nonsense.
     
    old_tony likes this.
  6. Dick Whitman

    Dick Whitman Well-Known Member

    It's not just "sabermetrics people" at this point. A pitcher is unlikely to ever gain Cy Young support again due to wins.
     
  7. outofplace

    outofplace Well-Known Member

    Also, even if you were going to go that route. Arrieta has won more games so far this season.
     
  8. bigpern23

    bigpern23 Well-Known Member

    As OOP noted, Pinder and Garcia are the only relievers on the list of pitchers I posted. The rest were starters. In response to your original post, I noted that it's probably not uncommon and I was correct. If you now want to change the parameters, be my guest. I don't care enough to search out the stats on all 30 teams and then have you change the parameters again.

    I specifically noted in my original response to Old Tony that because of small sample sizes, it's probably not uncommon and I was correct. In fact, it is widespread. If we want to start parsing the data and figuring out a minimum number of ABs that would eliminate the guys who are batting .500 or .667 or 1.000, we can definitely do that. But it's a silly exercise because even National League starters get so few ABs that it's a useless stat. The only reasonable way to say a starter leads the team in BA is if they have enough ABs to qualify for the batting title. And none of them do.
     
  9. Dick Whitman

    Dick Whitman Well-Known Member

    I don't think it's completely useless, though I mostly agree with you.

    Bartolo Colon wouldn't bat .300 over 25 at-bats if you gave him 1,000 cracks at it.
     
  10. Songbird

    Songbird Well-Known Member

    Bart's got 7 hits this season -- career high!
     
  11. Twirling Time

    Twirling Time Well-Known Member

    For a pitcher to qualify for a batting title, he would have to play in the field (or DH) just about every day, or obtain 3.1 plate appearances for every game his team plays. The last pitcher to do that may have been Babe Ruth.
     
  12. LongTimeListener

    LongTimeListener Well-Known Member

    Are you including relievers who go 1 for 3 or 2 for 4 in a season? Or are you talking about starting pitchers with a body of work? I read your post (and o_t's original thought about the starting lineup) to be a reference to starters.

    If you are talking about the relievers in that case, I could see the possibility.

    If you are talking about starting pitchers, that almost never happens. It certainly isn't "most" MLB (or NL) teams that have a starting pitcher at the top in BA, whether qualifier or not.
     
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