2016-17 Running NBA Thread

Yes, I was talking about the East.

To clarify, I'm not saying Wall is as good or better than Thomas was in his prime. I'm saying, you put Wall on those Pistons teams, they would've accomplished the same things.

 

Yes. His peak was absolutely better than Stockton's peak. It is true that he didn't sustain it nearly as long--the way Stockton maintained his excellence for 19 years was just freaky and something we'd never seen before from any guard--but Stockton at his best was not as good as Isiah at his best.

This debate topic strikes me as revisionist bunk. Isiah carried his college team to a national championship, he led his NBA team to two world championships (which would've been three if not for the combination of a sprained ankle and a ref screw job in the 88 Finals Game 7), he was the best point guard in the world not named Magic for a time period lasting at least a decade, and put on some of the most dazzling clutch performances I've ever seen--I'd say he's quite properly rated.

 

Isiah was the best all around PG that I've seen. He controlled the rhythm of the game incredibly well and was a great clutch performer. He certainly didn't have great longevity, but IMO, he was well better than Stockton.

 

We just killed off a ton of ____: Hall of Famer? threads in their infancy. Well done.

 

I've heard this phrase for 30 years and still have no idea what the hell it's supposed to mean. Pure point guard. And why, exactly, so many people are so eager to insist numerous players were better pure point guards than Magic. Is there a rule that you can't be 6-9 (nice) and still be considered a pure point guard? Is the guy with the most assists per game in regular season and playoff history not a pure point guard? Someone, please, give me the exact definition. I think it's usually used when talking about Magic to try and say someone is somehow better than him in this obscure way, even though it's as absurd as saying Reggie Miller was a better pure shooting guard than Michael Jordan.

Is it about a point guard who distributes first and shoots second? Isiah averaged three more field goal attempts per game than Magic. Chris Paul averages nearly a shot more.

Defensively, does it mean the point guard has to defend the other team's point guard? Okay, maybe Magic didn't always do that. Conversely...how many PGs, pure or otherwise, were guarding Magic on the other end? (Also, and it's not worth getting into here, the claims about Magic's deficiencies as a defender are highly exaggerated, here and elsewhere).

Is it someone who's the perfect player on the fast break, is that a pure point guard? The guy you always want in the middle of the break? Well, than that, of course, is going to be Magic, the best ever on the break.

Is a pure point guard someone who sets up the halfcourt offense, knows where everyone should be, pounds the ball, dishes into the post, runs the pick and roll, drives into the lane, finds open jump shooters? That's just what Magic did over and over and over again. Is it his dominating ability to slide into the post that somehow makes him an impure point guard?

Maybe you want to punish Magic's pureness because of the Norm Nixon years, when Norm was doing a lot of ballhandling as well. All right. So that simply means Magic was totally pure from 1984-91. I think those eight years alone would be enough to earn him the top spot in the pureness standings.

I guess maybe Stockton, who took fewer than 10 shots per game, is the ideal pure point guard. But, again, I don't get what makes his game -- whether we're talking style or the numbers -- more pure than the guy who racked up more assists per game than him and whose control of the entire team's offense was just as absolute.

 

Lunacy. Not unlike agreeing with Starman

 

Jesus Christ, it's like Kellyanne Conway has narrative'd the career of Isiah Thomas.

Have people really forgotten how fucking dominant and special he was?

 

Magic Johnson was about 30 percent point guard and 70 percent power forward (about 90 percent on defense).

In the open court, on the fast break, Magic was the best ever, end of story.

In the early set offense Magic was maybe not so great because he was never a spot up jump shooter and not much of a 3-point threat. In the late set offense where he could post up, back
people down and take it to the rack he was great again -- he was a 6-9 power forward.

Isiah Thomas was a great point guard in every aspect. Shooting, passing, ball handling and defense. He could sometimes be posted up by much taller guys but he was so quick and could steal the ball not many people tried it very often.

 

I've often made the argument that Magic was the greatest of all time, period.

"Pure point guard" reminds me of Larry Brown's or Norman Dale's "play the right way" bullshit.

 

Magic has a case. Wilt. Russell, Kareem and MJ have better ones.

 

Better pure point guard: Magic or Mugsy?

 

Magic IS the greatest of all time. /Belligerent me whose No. 1 sports guy will forever be Magic

The reality is the greatest of all time is a collection of 10 players.