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President Trump: The NEW one and only politics thread

Discussion in 'Sports and News' started by Moderator1, Nov 12, 2016.

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  1. goalmouth

    goalmouth Well-Known Member

    No need for anonymous sources, whistleblowers, or hearings...FATUS will eventually tell us everything.
     
  2. The Big Ragu

    The Big Ragu Moderator Staff Member

    And there will be no consequence for something that would have horrified people at any other time, because this is what we have allowed to happen.

    So it will stay out there, until we find out about the next abuse of power or corrupt act or whatever else next demonstrates someone who is unfit for office.

    For what it's worth, that unfitness for office was precisely what impeachment was supposed to address. The kind of person whose demeanor and actions demonstrate that they are morally bankrupt or who you find out would use the office for financial gain or who would sell out the country to advance their personal ambitions or hurt a perceived political enemy.

    If this charlatan isn't impeachable -- actually hasn't been impeachable for at least several dozen different actions since he's been elected -- then nobody is.
     
    bigpern23 and Driftwood like this.
  3. Azrael

    Azrael Well-Known Member

    I don't get it.

    I understand that US politics have moved to the far right over the last 40 years, but the idea that the Democrats in Congress can't rouse themselves to action against a cartoon villain like Trump is heartbreaking.
     
  4. Azrael

    Azrael Well-Known Member

    And just to touch on that for a moment, the Trudeau blackface episodes -

    Blackface has been off limits for decades. Really since CBS Radio took 'Amos and Andy' off the air in 1960. But even with a grant of superwhite ignorance, when the movie 'Holiday Inn' was taken off the air or recut in the mid-1980s to excise a blackface musical number, minstrelsy was pretty obviously off the table. The uncut version still airs on TCM.

    That's why the Ted Danson blackface at the Whoopi Goldberg roast was meant to be 'transgressive'. And why it was universally shouted down. That's 1993.

    Shit, Spike Lee's 'Bamboozled' came out in 2000.

    So the idea that someone would do blackface in 2001, Zwarte Pete notwithstanding, without knowing how offensive it is, is laughable.

    I understand that Canada is a different country and a different culture, but c'mon.

    Canada’s Surprising History of Blackface
     
  5. DanielSimpsonDay

    DanielSimpsonDay Well-Known Member

  6. goalmouth

    goalmouth Well-Known Member

    Mobsterz all, led by "Fat Donny" Trumpolo.
     
  7. The Big Ragu

    The Big Ragu Moderator Staff Member

    I am not speaking for Justin Trudeau or what he was thinking or what was going on when those photos and videos were taken, because I have no clue.

    But I think there is a subtlety here that time has changed.

    Context matters.

    Remember the movie Soul Man from the 1980s, with C. Thomas Howell doing blackface, with the plot being about him pretending to be black to get a scholarship to Harvard Law School?

    In the mid 1980s, maybe there were people out there who found it offensive, but that kind of thing definitely flew, which is why the movie got made, had some success and was a throwaway HBO staple for years.

    I don't think that kind of move would ever fly today. There would be automatic boycotts. There are way too many people who automatically go to outrage whenever race gets played with that way now, and there is no joking about it, no matter of context making one thing OK and another obviously offensive.

    I am not pointing that out to argue that things shouldn't be that way, I am simply saying that is the way it is now.

    I think things have changed when it comes to things like this, even since 2001.

    Yes, I agree that in 2001 a minstrel show would have been offensive to most people, but there were still contexts where I could see someone still trying to joke around with race (rightly or wrongly), in a way that most people would be afraid to touch today.

    I am not saying that Trudeau was within that sort of context where he should have thought it made it OK then, in fact the fact that he was in blackface so many different times makes me wonder wtf is up with it. But I do think there was still a subtlety that existed around this until relatively recently, where for many people context would have mattered more than it does now.

    I am not going to come up with the perfect example, but say in 2001 you had a kid dressing as Kobe Bryant for Halloween and he tried to make himself look black. I think then there would have been some people who found it offensive, sure, but as many or more people probably wouldn't have seen it as racist or someone trying to be offensive.

    But maybe my sensibilities (and memories of 2001) are off.

    In any case, today, no way that flies. Again, I am not saying that is wrong. Maybe our history with things like minstrel shows did so much damage and caused enough hurt that it all should be off limits. But if that is the case, I do think we definitely got to that realization and point relatively recently.
     
  8. Azrael

    Azrael Well-Known Member

    I understand that there are counterexamples. I include the blackface sequence in 'Silver Streak,' circa 1976.

    But I do think the cut-off for 'blacking up' - even as an ironic commentary on American bigotry - is the Ted Danson moment.
     
  9. garrow

    garrow Well-Known Member

    What the hell Russian show is that? "Who Wants to be a Sleazebag Millionaire?"
     
  10. The Big Ragu

    The Big Ragu Moderator Staff Member

    See, I thought Danson failed not because an ironic commentary on American bigotry suddenly became verboten in 1993, but because he failed to pull off an ironic commentary on American bigotry.

    He was a white man, wearing cartoonish minstrel show make up, with big white lips, running around using the word nigger over and over again, eating watermelon, and offering nothing actually funny or ironic. Which just left the offensive.

    In 1993, an actual minstrel show was just plain offensive. He thought that it was a foregone conclusion for everyone that he was a right-thinking, progressive guy, so somehow the minstrel show was going to be funny just by virtue of him doing it.
     
  11. garrow

    garrow Well-Known Member

    Latest insight from Mr. Projection:

     
  12. Azrael

    Azrael Well-Known Member

    True.

    And Whoopi defended it, and him.

    And whether or not it was funny or unfunny, it was the death knell for white people in blackface, earnest or ironic.

    Which was what made 'Bazmboozled' so powerful when Spike put Tommy and Savion in blackface. It was heartbreaking.

    I'm old enough at this point to think it impossible for sentient North Americans after Danson to believe blackface on white folks is OK.

    Even Disney / Aladdinface stuff.
     
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