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Running racism in America thread

Discussion in 'Sports and News' started by Scout, May 26, 2020.

  1. poindexter

    poindexter Well-Known Member

    a different viewpoint

     
  2. Spartan Squad

    Spartan Squad Well-Known Member

    I'll give an example. My school (before I got hired) was a mess with student behavior problems. Students were routinely kicked out of class to the point our office was constantly full. Suspensions were up and class disruption was high. The school decided it was unsustainable and we needed a change. The principal found a program where instead of getting kicked out of class, admin or a counselor comes to the class to work with the kid. If someone is refusing to listen or do work or is a distraction, we call for what we dub a push in. Admin shows up, talks with the kid in the room, gets them back on track and leaves. The teacher can focus on other students or have admin take the class while the teacher talks to the student in question. Students can even call their own push in if they need to talk to someone.

    Our suspensions plummeted. Students are more respectful. Fights are down. Now if we kick a kid out of the room or suspend them, they really earned it. Could we do the same for police? Call someone who isn't police to intervene first and save police for the real problems?

    My school's model is based on mutual respect. Students feel heard. Teachers feel supported.
     
  3. Inky_Wretch

    Inky_Wretch Well-Known Member

    So many people dream of living in Mayberry. But they want Robocop patrolling instead of Sheriff Taylor.
     
    HanSenSE, OscarMadison and garrow like this.
  4. Alma

    Alma Well-Known Member

    You mean, the 20 years after American cities tried their first round of economic and social reforms to address racism?

    As for more police reducing homicides and violent crime...the 1994 Crime Bill worked for that. I believe the bill set in motion other changes that have disproportionately affected and hindered black men in America, no question, but was there a reduction in crime? Yes.

    Whatever way we go - and I'm game for fewer cops, especially fewer cops with guns - we gotta live with the compromise. And when we live with compromise, we have to consider the big picture and not just the anecdotal picture. Problem is, with social media, anecdotal becomes the big picture. It's part of why people just pick their own facts and roll with them. There is absence of context.

    If Floyd's killing leads to major reform, I can support that. But there is going to be an anecdote, somewhere along the way, that will be emotionally-fraught and disturbing, and it can't stop progress toward or against reform.
     
  5. Oggiedoggie

    Oggiedoggie Well-Known Member

    Inky_Wretch likes this.
  6. The Big Ragu

    The Big Ragu Moderator Staff Member

    I said that I would guess that "crime," at least the crime you are talking about, is largely a function of how people feel economically and socially.

    You aren't responding to what I said, as much as you are doing your own riff. Which is fine. But you weren't addressing what I said.

    FWIW, if what I was suggesting is true, some piece of legislation didn't stop "crime." A short period in which the economy was growing above trend (GDP as they measure it was in the 4 to 5 percent range in the years following when that bill was passed) and unemployment was low relative to the years before that. It made people in cities feel more flush, cities started attacting businesses again, and voila, "crime" went down.

    If anything, that abomination of a bill did an insane amount to contribute to what we are dealing with now, by giving more power and money, and less accountability to autocratic police forces, a prison system that has been turned into an industry that greases politicians to pass bills like that to provide more and more inputs, which as it turns out, are young, black men. We went from imprisoning maybe a half a million people at any given time, which was already a number way up from the past, to creating this unconscionable monster that has put close to 2.5 million Americans in jail or prison at most times.

    We don't need more of the corruption and idiocy that has created that unjust America. We need to check ourselves and ask, "What did we do to the country"?
     
  7. Batman

    Batman Well-Known Member

    The antics of Ernest T. Bass came to an abrupt end once the ED-209 rolled into town.
     
  8. Alma

    Alma Well-Known Member

    There is, of course, a lot to unpack.

    First, prison pop was about 800,000 in 1994 and has doubled since then. I don't think there's any question the crime bill has quite a bit to do with that. We've been a "crime control" model for so long - too long - that we have almost certainly over-imprisoned our population.

    Second, homicide rates and total murders went down - way down - after the crime bill.

    23,330 in 1994

    15,522 in 1999

    Now - you're going to tell me that's all the dot.com boom? C'mon.

    Since 2015 - post-Ferguson - the murder rate's gone up again through 2018. Was that the economy? Or was it police forces pulling back in enforcement?

    There's a pretty clear statistical relationship between homicide rates and police presence/activity. Anyone who is comfortable with massive reforms on police will have to be comfortable with that particular possibility.

    As to Camden...the police department shut down at least 150 open-air drug markets from 2012 through 2018. Those markets accounted for at a good chunk of the violence.

    Camden's 2017 murder rate was the lowest in decades. Will the trend continue?

    Now, how in the hell did they do that?

    Oh - with more cops.

    Camden's open-air drug markets are decreasing, but still deadly

    The decline in open-air markets has occurred since the Camden County Police Department began patrolling city streets in May 2013, said Camden County Freeholder Director Louis Cappelli Jr.

    The county department has about 370 officers, compared to some 260 members in the final days of the layoff-depleted city police force.



    So, again, let's be clear: The city that activists want to use as an example of progress closed down open-air drug markets and hired 30% more cops.
     
  9. HanSenSE

    HanSenSE Well-Known Member

    Forget face masks. Mandatory batting helmets.
     
  10. Inky_Wretch

    Inky_Wretch Well-Known Member

    How many Camden County officers were there when there were 260 on the city force? 110? 50? 200?
     
  11. HanSenSE

    HanSenSE Well-Known Member

    RoboCop talking like Matlock is a visual none of us needed.
     
    Batman likes this.
  12. Michael_ Gee

    Michael_ Gee Well-Known Member

    Or maybe all of us.
     
    DanielSimpsonDay and HanSenSE like this.
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