Thoughts and Prayers: The Religion Thread

A serious question is asked seriously, IMO.
This is asked in a “your faith is dumb and so are you” kind of way. Why engage in that?

within this thread alone, I’ve answered this question multiple times.

 

Sometimes people will find out I'm Christian and they insist on some proof my beliefs are valid. It's not something that comes up unless the talk is about what we're doing or a holiday thing. Even then, I'm not big on telling people how to spend their time. For some, Christmas is a secular holiday that's framed the way it is because of the ambient Christian culture dominating everything from our calendar to how we embrace dualism as our primary operating ethos.

I don't mind answering questions, but my answers are always going to come from one of two places: 1.) My experience as a believer. 2.) My observation of human behavior as it pertains to belief, which in some ways is always going to be through the filter of the first entry so it's a sort of feedback loop about something that is ultimately based on personal inclination. This line of inquiry is not a problem in itself. If I come to this thread, I expect hard questions and know sometimes I can't answer them. The difference for me is when it becomes a condition for discussion as it can out in the material world. Then it feels like, "Dance, Christian monkey, dance!"

 

First of all miss judgy, it is a serious question and I would really like an answer.
I have moved 3 times since september so I have not taken the time to read the whole thread.
Also. I don't always think faith is dumb, sometimes it's fake (trumper Christians) and sometimes it's sincere faith. That's all there is to go on with religion and for some people I know that have religion, I respect that they truly have faith.

So again for anyone here who has the answer, why did god make the gays, if they are an abomination.

 

Fred Phelps and the like notwithstanding, Christians don't believe homosexuals are "an abomination."

 

This is one of those questions for which I'm not sure anyone has the definite, fully correct answer -- and there are lots of those types of questions.

This is a case with which many Christian families -- any with gay members -- struggle, because they want a definitive answer to that question. Personally, I'm not sure one can be had because I'm not entirely sure God "made" gays. I really believe there are personal and societal factors that contribute to people's sexual orientation, and that we are not all just born as we are. That, to me, is a fairly modern interpretation that has arisen out of homosexuals, themselves, attempting to answer your (and their own) very question -- with the idea being akin to the answer to, "Well, how do you know you're not gay?"

Also, maybe they're not an abomination. But that view, too, I think is a more modern take on the situation, as acceptance of people being "out" has gained traction and, for lack of a better way to put it, that increased visibility has helped/made people, well, get used to it. That didn't used to be the case, just like divorce and significant others living together while unmarried was practically unheard of, oh, as little as 60 years ago, but now, those are virtually everyday occurrences. For Christians, these issues still bring struggles, and I don't think that makes their views necessarily wrong. But that's my view.

My mother, who believes in and tries to live, as actively as possible, a Christian lifestyle, has a dear friend who has a lesbian granddaughter, who is openly gay and fully lives the lifestyle, with a partner to whom she is married. This woman is a deeply Godly person, and so is her grand-daughter, whom the grandmother loves dearly and with whom she is very close.

Yes, the grand-daughter ascribes to the idea that, yes, God made her gay. The grandmother, despite her deep love for her grand-daughter, or perhaps especially because of it, worries all the time, and prays daily, for and about her grand-daughter's eternal salvation because of this issue. It is something very real, to her, and to me, too, in accordance with my own views.

But I see it as this being something that's going to be between the grand-daughter and God because I don't know for sure which "side" of the argument is truly correct.

 

Well, nothing is 100% but I certainly believe that homosexuals are born that way.
This is not a judgement on them, maybe more on people who don't believe it but can you honestly say when you see certain people that they are not born gay? I don't know a better way to ask that. I am not implying that it is a negative, just a fact.
Also people know it from a very early age way before they know about society and how it deals with the subject. People say they have always known they are gay and I believe them.

I appreciate your effort but I still don't feel I know why god created gay people if he thinks it is wrong. I am happy to hear about the great relationship with your Moms friend and her granddaughter.
About the question "how do we know we aren't gay". The question I often find strange is "when did you decide to be gay". I think the answer to that should be when did you decide to become a heterosexual?

Does anyone here ever remember thinking "I am going to be a hetero"? Or were you just always one?

 

I still don't know why God created sexual desire if lustfulness is wrong. And why, if gluttony is such a sin, does some food taste so good? The Oregonian pinot noir my wife and I were drinking the other night ... Why was I worried that one too many glasses would nudge me over into sinfulness?

 

Come again?

 

I always thought the lust thing was about a neighbor or co worker, not your spouse and that the actual sexual desire was to keep the babies coming.

 

Your question assumes that people are born either heterosexual or homosexual. I'd suggest that that may not be the case -- that there are personal, developmental and societal factors that may push/lean someone one way or another -- and to certain degrees or other, too. You know that saying, "He's so gay?" We've all seen it. There are certainly some who seem "more gay" than others, and I certainly believe that can be so.

Regardless, as for a decision about if/when someone becomes gay, I think most people reach a tipping point -- a decisive moment, when they know, are truly aware -- and are willing to accept -- whatever they are, and that that is when it really happens, and when they begin "presenting," openly and without care, who they are. For gay people, that is usually when they "come out." For heterosexual people, that time is less obvious because of easier societal acceptance of their orientation, but I believe it occurs for everyone.

Maybe God doesn't think homosexuality is wrong, I don't know for sure. Maybe it really is society, or Bible believers' wrong reading of the Good Book and their beliefs that are wrong. Maybe we really do have it wrong. That's where beliefs and judgements come in. And if God does think it is wrong, perhaps when a gay person faces Him, God will just take into account that person's life, and heart, and whether or not they truly believe in Christ, when it comes to whether to give/receive the gift of eternal life, or not.

Just as He would do with anyone else.

 

You know what’s great? Heterosexuals who have never had a gay thought telling homosexuals why they have the sexual desires they have and judging them accordingly.

Why not take them at face value? Isn’t that how you would want to be judged?

 

If you think people only become homosexual the moment they present it publicly, you truly do not understand them at all. More importantly, you simply aren't hearing what they have to say and you are not understanding what they write about their experiences.

Just to cite one example, my great uncle never publicly came out. He never told his family. We all knew, but he was never open about it. I'm certain much of that was the era he grew up in.

It saddens me to think of the choices he and his brother, my grandfather, had to make. Their parents were Orthodox Jews, and both men had a deep and lasting faith. My grandfather had to leave the Orthodox congregation because he fell in love with my grandmother, who was Reformed. They wouldn't accept that, so he chose her over them.

My great uncle also left for obvious reasons. Both of them had to leave the congregation that meant a great deal to them, but wouldn't accept them for who they loved.