Meanwhile on the International front....

Probably what should have happened was that at the end of WWII, a new expressly Jewish free state should have been forcibly created out of the previous territory of Austria, Bavaria and the richest regions left over from Germany and northern Italy. For some reason pretty much nobody wanted this option.

 

Is it the same reason that Palestinians don’t want a homeland carved out of Saudi Arabia?

I think it is.

 

Exactly. That is the fundamental problem. Neither side just wants land. They want that particular land and they don't want to share.

 

Did you mean this?

I'm not sure your characterization of his method is exactly accurate. Also, he's not the one criticizing some of the options presented since then.

 

Every answer to the problem is going to anger someone. In fact, most answers will undoubtedly anger everyone. OK.

But doing the same thing again and again and expecting a different result is one definition of insanity. In the case of Israel and its internal refugee population, that applies to both sides.

A course of action like the one I'm roughing out here has been done, at scale, in living memory.

Whether we're talking about Ireland, South Africa or the creation of Pakistan, every version of peace in the Middle East is going to require global buy-in and local sacrifice. Lots of incentives. And a huge commitment to the idea of peace.

For example, I think the West Bank and Jerusalem are the sticking points for adult Palestinians.

But the average age in Gaza is under 20. I don't think those folks care nearly as much about historical imperatives as they do about living in freedom and safety.

 

That is easy to say when you aren't Israel, which has spent much of his existence fighting for its right to exist. They don't believe in a proportionate responses to attacks. They believe in disproportionate responses, not because they want to do it, but because they feel it is necessary as a deterrent. If they start backing down in such moments, I see no reason to believe that will do anything but embolden Hamas.

 

I think you are wrong. Maybe some of them just want safety and freedom, but I'm guessing the majority want their religious homeland, not some other parcel of land. Hamas might even say they agree at first, but I don't think they will ever settle for a solution that allows Israel to exist.

 

One person's sense of what constitutes "freedom and safety" might differ drastically from another's.

 

When has over-punishment or collective punishment ever been an effective deterrent?

 

Sure.

But again, I think those general notions can and have been agreed upon in the other cases I cite. That agreement can take years, certainly. And creates all sorts of unintended consequences.

But it's possible.

Right now all we're doing is killing each others' children.

 

I think the Israelis are starting to see it that way and trying to wipe Hamas out entirely. I don't think that is possible, but that seems to be the goal.

 

Unless it's all misinformation bullshit, it seems even a decent chunk of Israeli citizens are urging for cooler heads to prevail. They're openly protesting Bibi, from what I've seen.

So at what point is criticizing Bibi OK? I've never criticized Israel as a state or Jews as a people and never would. Bibi didn't CAUSE this. That's Hamas and only Hamas. But he certainly hasn't helped at any point and actively seems to be pursuing a path that's not only doomed to fail, but will probably end up making things worse.