Meanwhile on the International front....

[MileHigh]

Oh my bad, when I read assassination, figured it was close in. Still, figure there had to be some Israeli special forces involved on the ground to confirm location.

- Plus, it really bugs me that Hamas' "leaders" are hiding out far away while their people are facing such harsh realities in Gaza. Why there is still public for support for Hamas is beyond me.

Been discussed on this thread for many pages and many months. While the Gaza public no doubt has been suffering thanks to Hama, it supports Hama because they want Israel and its people completely wiped away. And they see Hamas as the ones to do it.

 

[DanOregon]

I know - the "doom loop" - "Suffering leads to more suffering in order to make it "mean something." See also various arguments about ending losing wars and soldiers dying in vain.

 

[Guy_Incognito]

They could. This op proves yet again that they can be precise when they choose to be.

They chose instead to simply flatten every home and business in Gaza, on the theory that someone with Hamas might have been/would be there at some point, so there would damn well be nowhere to return to.

The civilians it belonged to? Casualties of war. Tough shirt. Shoulda lived somewhere else.

I've encountered few people who have your confidence about things they know so little about.

 

[Neutral Corner]

I've promised myself in a dozen posts here to stay the heck out of this thread. I saw the way that Netanyahu was choosing to conduct this campaign very early, before the IDF went in, and I hated it from the jump.

I guess I don't have enough hatred in me to be comfortable with what either side has chosen to do. Lord knows I don't sympathize with Hamas. I just feel that Israel has chosen to be heavy handed and brutal, and I do have much sympathy for the people caught in the crossfire, both Israeli and Palestinian.

 

[Guy_Incognito]

I've promised myself in a dozen posts here to stay the heck out of this thread. I saw the way that Netanyahu was choosing to conduct this campaign very early, before the IDF went in, and I hated it from the jump.

I guess I don't have enough hatred in me to be comfortable with what either side has chosen to do. Lord knows I don't sympathize with Hamas. I just feel that Israel has chosen to be heavy handed and brutal, and I do have much sympathy for the people caught in the crossfire, both Israeli and Palestinian.

Not that you lack the hatred. That's quite the charitable humble-brag ("my biggest weakness? I'm just too driven and need to learn how to relax").
You lack the skin in the game, empathy or imagination to put yourself in the position of Israel and think through what you would do as opposed to bloviating about both sides in a way that makes you feel righteous but avoids any hard decisions.

 

[Twirling Time]

I figured beforehand that Bibi would be savvy enough to skirt any direct confrontation with Tehran to keep Israel on a war footing but out of the deep shirt.

Welp. Hope the Iron Domers ate their Wheaties.

 

[goalmouth]

William Calley died.

 

[DanOregon]

IDF strikes Beirut: Hezbollah commander responsible for Majdal Shams strike confirmed killed

Again, amazing how precise Israel can be when it chooses to be. No tears here for the former Hezbollah guy, but it makes me wonder more and more about Gaza.

 

[Twirling Time]

William Calley died.

I saw that and passed on a thread.

SUPER CALLEY GO BALLISTIC

VC ARE ATROCIOUS

If this happened in 2018 rather than 1968, the forker wouldn't be able to get a job washing dishes at Golden Corral much less get married and have a kid.

What corporate board is Lynndie England serving on now?

 

[Neutral Corner]

Not that you lack the hatred. That's quite the charitable humble-brag ("my biggest weakness? I'm just too driven and need to learn how to relax").
You lack the skin in the game, empathy or imagination to put yourself in the position of Israel and think through what you would do as opposed to bloviating about both sides in a way that makes you feel righteous but avoids any hard decisions.

I lack the skin in the game, true enough. I'm an American Southerner. I hold no anti-Semitism, and in general no animosity for Arabic and Moslem people. I've been a backer of Israel broadly for decades.

I simply looked at Netanyahu's plan to shell and bomb neighborhoods in Gaza and said "This is going to be a humanitarian nightmare", and nothing I have seen since has changed that opinion. Hamas is dogshirt, but everyone in Palestine isn't Hamas, and the vast majority of them have no way to get out of there, so they suffer.

I don't have any easy answers for the Middle East. I've watched several generations of politicians dash themselves on the rocks trying to come up with a plan that works.

 

[Guy_Incognito]

I lack the skin in the game, true enough. I'm an American Southerner. I hold no anti-Semitism, and in general no animosity for Arabic and Moslem people. I've been a backer of Israel broadly for decades.

I simply looked at Netanyahu's plan to shell and bomb neighborhoods in Gaza and said "This is going to be a humanitarian nightmare", and nothing I have seen since has changed that opinion. Hamas is dogshirt, but everyone in Palestine isn't Hamas, and the vast majority of them have no way to get out of there, so they suffer.

I don't have any easy answers for the Middle East. I've watched several generations of politicians dash themselves on the rocks trying to come up with a plan that works.

That's lovely. But those who live there don't have the luxury of saying "it's complicated" and anyone using violence sucks. I'm no Bibi fan (anymore - he should have stepped down before 10/7) but there isn't an Israeli politician or citizen that doesn't think he needs to defeat hamas militarily which when their strategy revolves around maximizing the casualties of their own citizens so that western simpletons pressure Israel to stop before they are defeated, tragically and horrifically means that there will be innocents harmed. Unless you have a better plan for not offering his own citizens like lambs to the slaughter to wolves who have slaughtered before and voted to do it again as soon they're able to, keep your finger wagging to yourself.

 

[Neutral Corner]

I deleted my original answer. I posted before the IDF went in that artillery and aerial bombing of residential areas would result in wholesale civilian casualties. It has.

When Saddam Hussein and Bashar Assad did similar things, I bitched in exactly the same way.

Like I said, I simply need to stay out of here. It's way too polarized, and there are those among us who have reason to have no scruples about doing anything it takes to try to stop Hamas. It might work... but the history of fighting insurgencies says that this sort of action simply breeds the next generation of insurgent fighters.