Pete Rose is dead

The last bit of that is why I feel like those who are all holier than thou about Rose (not you) are so full of shit. He somehow besmirched integrity of a game that has none? MLB routinely changes the baseballs so they go farther. It fails to enforce the strike zone to help hitters and changes where fielders are allowed to stand, all to enhance scoring, which sells more tickets and gets more eyes. Everything is done with the bottom line in the crosshairs, but somehow there's integrity at stake? There's nothing at stake but the pockets of billionaires. Integrity. In professional sports. This is what we're worried about. People are fucking hysterical.

Baseball, the land of the pure, kept minorities off its fields for decades and yet we talk about its integrity? Baseball and all its integrity ignored, for the better part of a decade, a bunch of guys who were clearly (or creamly) breaking rules, and laws, because chicks, like everyone else, dig the long ball. Those guys brought baseball back from near extinction and are now pariahs, unwelcome and unrecognized. Rose, who battled an addiction as real as any, is somehow the one we need to keep out with them? The guy got 4,256 hits. I don't give a shit what he did the rest of the time. He got them without jamming a needle in his ass and nobody else will ever match that number. But because he had a pathological lack of self control, not a desire to harm the precious game -- if he were an alcoholic or a drug, ummm, junkie, everyone would feel sorry for him and talk about how hard he's fought -- we're supposed to pretend all 4,256 of them never happened? Because there's a sign in the locker room? Hell, just today people were talking about a "gentleman's split," literally two teams throwing two games, and everyone thought it was cute.

Somehow, by the way, Paul Hornung and Alex Karras are in the Professional Football Hall of Fame and it hasn't burst into flames. There are signs in NFL clubhouses too. Forgiveness is a wonderful thing.

 

Karris went in 50 years after he retired (eight years after he died); Hornung had to wait 20.

If you go by the Karras plan, you'd put Rose in as the Class of 2039

 

Damn good take. Thanks.

 

I've bounced back and forth about Rose since I was in high school (1970 grad). I was on the baseball team. Our best player used to head-first slide, so others tried. We started a Charlie Hustle Fan Club on our team. I loved him.

A few years later, I was a huge Dodgers fan and the Reds were our rivals. Games between them were intense. I hated him.

In 1981-82-83, I was the Dodgers beat guy. I remained objective and during interviews with Rose, he filled up our notebooks. Ran into him at Derby Downs dog track in Florida during spring training and it was a fun night. I loved him.

I went into baseball clubhouses every day and the first thing you see is the poster with the baseball rules that stressed that gambling on baseball was forbidden. I hated him.

As for the Hall of Fame, I gave it a great deal of thought when I was a voter. I agree with his ban and hoped it would never be rescinded, particularly when he started to show up in Cooperstown on induction day to run a sideshow selling autographs. I no longer vote. And the steroids guys, a former player once told me to keep in mind that the sluggers who were on steroids were facing pitchers who were also on steroids.

 

I am old enough to have disliked Pete Rose when he still had a crewcut.

Rest.

 

He’s dead. Put him in.

Half of America gets to penalize him, and half of America gets what they eventually want.

 

Karras is not the all-time sack leader in the NFL. He was a very good defensive tackle. Hornung wasn't the all-time leading rusher. There's no comparison. The point is, they both were inducted. And, yeah, Rose has not been playing for nearly 40 years. But hey, at least the integrity of the game is intact.

 

HE BET ON HIS OWN TEAM.
Not alive. Not dead.
Not then. Not now.
I do not like green eggs and ham.

 

I find that argument difficult to dispute. Nice touch on the final paragraph.

 

That damn deer ...

 

That is a strong claim and you support it well, but I do not think Karras and Hornung were comparable to Rose. For on thing, those are different sports with different sets of rules and different groups of people voting for the Hall of Fame. The NFL may have signs in the locker room, too, but it doesn't have a Black Sox scandal in its history. Also, again, we are talking about players, not a head coach or manager. I don't remember if there was any indication that Karras or Hornung bet on their own team's games, either.

You are right about the hypocrisy of the game talking about its purity when its history and present are anything but pure. To me, and to many others, the difference between what PED users did and what Rose did was simple. Guys like Bonds and Clemens violated the integrity of the game to perform better. They cheated to win. That wasn't true of Rose. If anything, it is likely that he wasn't trying as hard to win all the time as a manager. He was very likely prioritizing the games when he bet on his team.

Nothing is more important to the integrity of the sport than the belief that everyone is trying to win. If we don't think both teams are trying to win, why bother to watch? That is why the Black Sox scandal was such a big deal. That is why MLB and all sports have taken actions to discourage tanking in the past with things like draft lotteries and need to do more. That is why I am no longer a fan of any single team in baseball. The Pirates aren't trying to win, at least not in the way most teams are trying. That perception that my team isn't trying to win turned me off as a fan. If not for fantasy baseball, I doubt I would even follow MLB any more. That is why sports need to protect that particular part of their integrity. That is why Rose's offense was so egregious. His refusal to take responsibility until he thought it would benefit him was just icing on the rotten cake.

 

3 bats, 2 balls.