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pyrrhic victory

Discussion in 'Journalism topics only' started by Rusty Shackleford, Jan 24, 2007.

  1. Michael_ Gee

    Michael_ Gee Well-Known Member

    I just had a flash insight. We're arguing principles not applicable to the facts of the case.
    If we stipulate that the writer who used "Pyrrhic victory" in their lede did so appropriately-that is, game in question WAS a Pyrrhic victory-it stands to reason the next paragraph of the story would need to explain WHY it was a Pyrrhic victory. This means any reader at any level would learn the meaning of the phrase through context.
    If the writer didn't do that, the desk should strike the phrase, but that'd indicate this was the least of their problems with the guy.
     
  2. Mystery_Meat

    Mystery_Meat Guest

    That's fair, but I think the conversation had long evolved (or devolved, depending on your perspective) into debate over the use of relatively uncommon words, phrases and references in day-to-day writing.

    And in the specific circumstance, I'd say it's more appropriate to use it in a column, where you're given more space and latitude to explain it, than having it eat up some of your precious 12 inches of gamer hole.
     
  3. Ace

    Ace Well-Known Member

    Your publisher is backward. I would have given you a smack on the head.
     
  4. cranberry

    cranberry Well-Known Member

    Shhhhh. Can't you see we're having a serious intellectual discussion. What does 'stipulate' mean?
     
  5. fishwrapper

    fishwrapper Active Member

    Yeah. This is a great tact.
    But, you don't have to worry. They're either dying or putting the paper down quicker than we can explain Pyrrhic victory to a group of journalists.
     
  6. Frank_Ridgeway

    Frank_Ridgeway Well-Known Member

    See, I think the dummies don't bother. I think the people who read my newspaper are smarter, better educated and by most measures more successful than most of the people in newsrooms. Those people living in the houses that cost three times what mine cost -- not all of them are just lucky.

    Ever go to buy something and the salesperson sizes you up and then talks to you like you were born yesterday? Galling, isn't it? If you're like me, you say to yourself, I'm not buying from this asshole even if I have to drive 10 miles to buy from someone else.

    A couple times I've seen The New York Times use the term "Greek chorus" in headlines; who knows, it probably was the same copy editor. Now I had to look up that one. In fact, I tried to look it up again just now so I could tell you what it means and my dictionary doesn't even have it. But does this turn me off to the NYT or make me feel bad about myself? No, I expect a newspaper to tell me something I don't know, and that's why I tend to read newspapers that are written for grownups.

    Now if a story is filled with obscure words, I have a problem with that. Foreign phrases, well, we publish an English-language newspaper. An occasional ten-cent word, why not? I've worked with plenty of people who strip stories of fairly common words because they think our readers are mongoloids. That's just wrong.
     
  7. EE94

    EE94 Guest

    I agree, and made the same point, though I suppose its was less obvious, about five pages back.
     
  8. good thread, interesting back-and-forth on both sides & and encouraged to see after six pages it hasn't dissolved into nasty name-calling (yet)
     
  9. Ace

    Ace Well-Known Member

    Who asked you? You tipsy toad.
     
  10. novelist_wannabe

    novelist_wannabe Well-Known Member

    Is this the right one? :D
     
  11. Mystery_Meat

    Mystery_Meat Guest

    Looking back, I am deeply ashamed at my post. I used mouth-breathers in consecutive sentences! What the fuck! So everyone scratch out the second reference in your copies of the post (I know you all hang on my every word and print them out to put in a coffee table book), and replace it with your favorite descriptive for dum-dum.

    There, I feel better now.
     
  12. Pat_Forde

    Pat_Forde New Member

    Interesting that this topic came up. I wrote this lede about four weeks ago, before BK broke the all-time victories record:



    Bob Knight is closing in on victories that will be historic in scope but pyrrhic in nature.

    To understand the pyrrhic part, you need to know about "Project 880" at Texas Tech.

    Knight, who is now tied with Dean Smith at 879 victories, likely will become the winningest coach in Division I men's college basketball annals during the Red Raiders' ongoing four-game home stand. In hope that people actually will show up to see Knight enter the record books, Tech has been offering $8.80 general admission seats to the four games at United Spirit Arena. And if you buy a lower-level ticket to those games, you can get one upper-level general admission seat for free.

    It's not an easy sell. Texas Tech averaged 6,707 fans in its 15,000-seat arena for four of its early home games this season (attendance for Sam Houston State was not listed) before pulling in 11,561 for the record-tying game against Bucknell this past Saturday.

    This is the bed Bob Knight made for himself: He'll make history at an out-of-the-way school with no men's basketball heritage in a football state, in front of a house that very well could be less than full. He'll make history in exile, in effect.

    Not exactly the moment of glory this could have been.




    Clearly, I blew it by not capitalizing the word Pyrrhic. As some readers -- who were not turned off, appalled or otherwise befuddled -- wrote in to inform me. As Mike Gee said, the term Pyrrhic victory is hardly unheard of, and I thought it was worth the calculated risk that some people will not get it. And because I thought the term fit Bob Knight and the position he's in.

    I know this much: every time somebody says we need to avoid using good (and apt) words, phrases and ideas on account of a few readers not getting it, I want to beat myself in the head with a frying pan. It's not a crime for newspapers to occasionally challenge the vocabulary of the readership. Many times, while I was reading a Charlie Pierce story, I've run to the dictionary to figure out a word or reference he's made -- and I have never, ever put down a Charlie Pierce story because I came across something that was over my head. Instead, I learned something. If using the word Pyrrhic in a lede makes me an elitist, fine. Using it semi-incorrectly, by not capitalizing it, might have made me a moron. I will cop to that.
     
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