2011-12 Hot Stove Thread

[Gehrig]

Re: 2011 Hot Stove Thread

If the A's move to San Jose they go from being a "small market" team to a "large market" team. The South Bay has lots of money.

That assumes Oakland is a "small" market, yet they are in a Top-10 TV market. Yes, there is San Francisco just across the bay, but using the same logic, are the White Sox and Mets also "small market" teams? Beane likes to sing the small-market blues, but I don't buy it.

It has nothing to do with TV market. Why is it the the A's have never been able to draw more fans? Here is the A's rank in attendance since they moved to Oakland in 1968. Other than the Bash Brothers teams the A's attendance has been terrible.

1968- 8/10
1969- 8/12
1970- 9/12
1971- 7/12
1972- 5/12
1973- 8/12
1974- 11/12
1975- 6/12
1976- 11/12
1977- 14/14
1978- 14/14
1979- 14/14
1980- 12/14
1981- 4/14
1982- 6/14
1983- 11/14
1984- 11/14
1985- 11/14
1986- 11/14
1987- 11/14
1988- 7/14
1989- 2/14
1990- 2/14
1991- 3/14
1992- 4/14
1993- 11/14
1994- 13/14
1995- 12/14
1996- 14/14
1997- 14/14
1998- 13/14
1999- 12/14
2000- 11/14
2001- 7/14
2002- 8/14
2003- 6/14
2004- 7/14
2005- 8/14
2006- 12/14
2007- 12/14
2008- 13/14
2009- 14/14
2010- 13/14
2011- 14/14

 

[Bubbler]

Re: 2011 Hot Stove Thread

Never been there, but by nearly every account of people I know who have, the stadium is crap and was made worse when it was enclosed for the Raiders.

In the early years, Finley had no promotional staff and alienated his own fans with his own quirks and stupid level of frugality. He'd do shirt like sign ludicrous radio deals with college stations, etc.

In recent years, it's because the franchise is the epitome of woodwork. Is there a more faceless, bland franchise than the A's since the early 2000s? Maybe their division-mate Mariners are their only competition in that regard.

Not to mention that not only have they been playing out a real-live Major League existence to get this seemingly two-decade quest to move to San Jose going, but you also have master alchemist Billy Beane there to conjure his spells and fork-up any kind of roster stability, thus further alienating fans who might want to actually have players they know they can cheer for on more than a year-to-year basis.

 

[HanSenSE]

Re: 2011 Hot Stove Thread

Full disclosure: I'm a huge Giants fanboi, haven't been to a baseball game in the Oakland Masoleum since the Raiders came back, but do like the idea of having both leagues in Northern California, even with interleague play.

Why don't the A's draw? It's like Bubbler said. Their marketing is anti-marketing: Woe is us, woe is our yard, so let's sell the only players what few fans we have know and pretend no one in San Jose is paying attention in case Uncle Bud lets us move there. Their radio deals should be case studies in disasters in business schools. Yes, they were on Cal's student station for a month or so. There's been a couple of times where their flagship station couldn't be heard inside the stadium. One of their homes was sold and switched to a religious format about a month before the season ended. Another went bankrupt the day before opening day.

Yet you look across the Bay, and there's the Giants. Yes, they play in a quirky, relatively new yard, and, yes, they did win the World Series in 2010. But they also market the heck out of the team. Fans freezing their asses off at Candlestick? Give them the "Croix de Candlestick." World Series trophy? Don't keep it in the office, take it on a barnstorming tour (including the site of the Polo Grounds). heck, they almost made Bonds palatable during his pursuit of Aaron.

Can baseball work in Oakland? Yes, I think it can. Yes, they need a new yard (IIRC, Oakland and Toronto are the only MLB teams still playing in multipurpose stadiums). A cut in the crime rate would help too. But it's also gonna take a lot of creative marketing, much like what was seen when the Haas family bought the team from Finley. Remember, before there were the Bash Brothers, there was "Billy Ball," with Billy Martin managing and the likes of Rickey Henderson and Dwayne Murphy roaming the outfield.And consider this: In 1989, when the A's and Giants met in what's better known as the Earthquake Series, both teams combined drew more than 6 million! Not bad for a so-called small market.

 

[LongTimeListener]

Re: 2011 Hot Stove Thread

Nah. The old A's vibe is about what used to be and not what is. Oakland is a dying town, like Baltimore or Detroit. If David Simon knew Oakland like the back of his hand, he could have set "The Wire" there and it would have worked just as well.

Most important, there's no corporate money. The companies that used to have big presences there don't anymore. The Warriors are also talking about building a new place, next to the Giants in San Francisco, and the Raiders would love to be part of the 49ers' new stadium.

The A's are marketed horribly, and yes, it's intentional to get out of Oakland. And for all their cries of woe, they still make money every year, especially with the $40M cut they get from revenue-sharing. But there are very valid reasons to be getting out of Oakland. A stadium there is a money-loser and a non-starter.

 

[Herbert Anchovy]

Re: 2011 Hot Stove Thread

For some reason, three teams are interested in the services of Ryan Theriot.

http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2011/12/braves-rays-mets-interested-in-ryan-theriot.html

 

[LongTimeListener]

Re: 2011 Hot Stove Thread

Monte Poole of Oakland Tribune calls the A's off-season for what it is: surrender.

http://www.mercurynews.com/athletics/ci_19634325

I don't know how shamelessly they will jimmy the attendance figures, but I foresee the A's playing some games in front of butts-in-seats crowds of well under 5,000.

 

[Armchair_QB]

Re: 2011 Hot Stove Thread

The three years Oakland won the series in the 70s they ranked 5th, 8th and 11th in attendance. Sounds like Oakland has never really been a baseball town to begin with.

 

[Bubbler]

Re: 2011 Hot Stove Thread

The three years Oakland won the series in the 70s they ranked 5th, 8th and 11th in attendance. Sounds like Oakland has never really been a baseball town to begin with.

Charlie Finley's bullshirt didn't help that cause.

 

[Armchair_QB]

Re: 2011 Hot Stove Thread

The three years Oakland won the series in the 70s they ranked 5th, 8th and 11th in attendance. Sounds like Oakland has never really been a baseball town to begin with.

Charlie Finley's bullshirt didn't help that cause.

True, but 11th out of 12 in attendance in a World Series year?

 

[Bubbler]

Re: 2011 Hot Stove Thread

The three years Oakland won the series in the 70s they ranked 5th, 8th and 11th in attendance. Sounds like Oakland has never really been a baseball town to begin with.

Charlie Finley's bullshirt didn't help that cause.

True, but 11th out of 12 in attendance in a World Series year?

Protest against the designated runner?

 

[Armchair_QB]

Re: 2011 Hot Stove Thread

Hmmm... you might be on to something there.

 

[HanSenSE]

Re: 2011 Hot Stove Thread

Monte Poole of Oakland Tribune calls the A's off-season for what it is: surrender.

http://www.mercurynews.com/athletics/ci_19634325

I don't know how shamelessly they will jimmy the attendance figures, but I foresee the A's playing some games in front of butts-in-seats crowds of well under 5,000.

True, true. Even with the traded players, it's a stretch to imagine the A's being competitive with the Rangers and Angels, but it appears current management has no interest at all in putting a competitive team on the field. That's not a small market vs. large market issue, it's just doing things cheaply.