2013-14 MLB Hot Stove thread

[outofplace]

Did we even have an MLB awards thread?

Where is the whining from the stathead Trout supporters now that Miguel Cabrera won a second consecutive AL MVP Award?

 

[Steak Snabler]

I'm starting to think Ruben Amaro might be learning-disabled:

@JeffPassan

Source: Phillies strongly pursuing eighth-inning relievers, including Edward Mujica. Believed to be willing to go three years for setup man.

https://twitter.com/JeffPassan/status/401218184188932096

 

[mjp1542]

I can't blame the Pirates. They are going to get hit pretty good on arbitration cases so they might need to wait and see how much that will cost before spending eight million the nest two years for a guy in his late 30s

Morton, Jones, Walker, Melancon and Alvarez are going from $10.9 million to around $21 million depending on the ruling.

Where are all the people who insisted that $13 million over two years did not qualify as significant money for the Pirates? :

Ha ha, OOP still thinks Burnett was a bad risk to take for the Pirates.

If 13 million over 2 years is significant money for a profitable franchise they should fold up shop now. The Pirates are smart in not locking into a 36 year old outfielder. That money can be spent in much better ways.

Learn to read, JC. I long ago agreed that Burnett worked out for the Pirates. Of course he did.

My point, the one you and far too many others were too dense or too lazy to understand, was that $13 million over two years is significant money to the Pirates. At the time they committed to spending it on Burnett, that constituted more money per season than they had paid anybody on the roster the previous season.

And it's not me saying that they passed on Byrd because of money. It is the Pirates. They said that Byrd, at two years for $16 million, was out of their price range. That is the Pirates saying that it was a financial decision, not a baseball one.

Please try to do a better job understanding other people's posts before you criticize next time.

The Pirates didn't straight-up say that contract was out of their price range. They admitted that, at the time, it was more than they were willing to spend on Byrd. As in, there are priorities that come before filling the RF spot, such as figuring out what A.J. Burnett is going to do, finding another pitcher, determining what kind of raises the arbitration-eligible players will get, etc.

Neal Huntington said that the Phillies struck early and that it was smart of them because other teams are still trying to come up with their plan and weren't willing to commit the dollars quite so early in the hot stove process.

Yes, the Pirates have a budget. And in early November, they (smartly) weren't willing to use up that budget on Marlon Byrd. It's a financial decision AND a baseball decision. Those exist, too. They two things don't have to be exclusive.

 

[outofplace]

I can't blame the Pirates. They are going to get hit pretty good on arbitration cases so they might need to wait and see how much that will cost before spending eight million the nest two years for a guy in his late 30s

Morton, Jones, Walker, Melancon and Alvarez are going from $10.9 million to around $21 million depending on the ruling.

Where are all the people who insisted that $13 million over two years did not qualify as significant money for the Pirates? :

Ha ha, OOP still thinks Burnett was a bad risk to take for the Pirates.

If 13 million over 2 years is significant money for a profitable franchise they should fold up shop now. The Pirates are smart in not locking into a 36 year old outfielder. That money can be spent in much better ways.

Learn to read, JC. I long ago agreed that Burnett worked out for the Pirates. Of course he did.

My point, the one you and far too many others were too dense or too lazy to understand, was that $13 million over two years is significant money to the Pirates. At the time they committed to spending it on Burnett, that constituted more money per season than they had paid anybody on the roster the previous season.

And it's not me saying that they passed on Byrd because of money. It is the Pirates. They said that Byrd, at two years for $16 million, was out of their price range. That is the Pirates saying that it was a financial decision, not a baseball one.

Please try to do a better job understanding other people's posts before you criticize next time.

The Pirates didn't straight-up say that contract was out of their price range. They admitted that, at the time, it was more than they were willing to spend on Byrd. As in, there are priorities that come before filling the RF spot, such as figuring out what A.J. Burnett is going to do, finding another pitcher, determining what kind of raises the arbitration-eligible players will get, etc.

Neal Huntington said that the Phillies struck early and that it was smart of them because other teams are still trying to come up with their plan and weren't willing to commit the dollars quite so early in the hot stove process.

Yes, the Pirates have a budget. And in early November, they (smartly) weren't willing to use up that budget on Marlon Byrd. It's a financial decision AND a baseball decision. Those exist, too. They two things don't have to be exclusive.

Before the deal was even signed, the Pirates were saying Byrd was out of their price range. That is crying poor.

It may be a sound baseball decision. I think it is, assuming they find help for the outfield somewhere else. But the Pirates clearly cried poor again on this one. There is no doubt about that.

 

[Michael_ Gee]

OOP, did the Pirates say "that's too much" or did they say, "Marlon Byrd wants more than we think he's worth"? There's a big difference.

 

[Dick Whitman]

Did we even have an MLB awards thread?

Where is the whining from the stathead Trout supporters now that Miguel Cabrera won a second consecutive AL MVP Award?

I think that there are a couple of things that were present last year that are not this year. First of all, Cabrera did not win the Triple Crown this year. I think it rankled people that was an argument-ender. Second of all, the Angels were bad this year. Last year, they had a better record than the Tigers, so using the Tigers' playoff appearance as an Advantage: Cabrera was somewhat problematic. Third of all, Trout's defensive metrics were not as good this year. Now, I think we're all pretty skeptical of defensive WAR. But for whatever it's worth, it was negative this year for Trout, as compared to 2.1 last year. The people making the Trout argument care about that stuff, and it just wasn't there this time.

Finally, Trout stole 33 bases this year. Last year, he stole 49. A lot of his value this time around was in his increased walk rate. That's certainly valuable, but it doesn't make for a compelling MVP case, particularly with his defense, stolen bases, and power all taking a drop.

 

[outofplace]

OOP, did the Pirates say "that's too much" or did they say, "Marlon Byrd wants more than we think he's worth"? There's a big difference.

Key part of Huntington's quote

"We feared he was out of our price range immediately."

Here's the Pittsburgh Post-Gazette story on Byrd signing with the Phillies. No mention at all of any other reason they didn't keep him.

http://www.post-gazette.com/sports/2013/11/13/Byrd-opts-for-Phillies/stories/201311130075

 

[nmmetsfan]

I guess we'll see if that meant out of the team's price range or out of the range they figured he was worth. If they spend money elsewhere, we'll have the answer.

 

[outofplace]

I guess we'll see if that meant out of the team's price range or out of the range they figured he was worth. If they spend money elsewhere, we'll have the answer.

Cute that some of y'all can't even admit that the Pirates cried poor on this one.

They could also lose Burnett and I'm guessing Morneau is gone, too. This is when a team like the Pirates should spend, when they are contenders. If they don't, the we really have an answer.

It certainly seems they have front office personnel that know what they are doing, but this jump to give ownership credit for the team's success is a joke. I've seen very little to indicate that they have changed their miserly ways.

 

[Steak Snabler]

Marlon Byrd is old, wildly inconsistent and has a history of PED use. The Pirates can't afford to make a mistake on a guy like that.

 

[nmmetsfan]

I don't understand how some fans think choosing to not pay for players on the downside of their careers is a bad thing.

And who gives a shirt what they said? Actions speak louder than words.

 

[Drip]

Try again, boys. Rumors have to have SOME plausibility.

You can go crazy listening to all of the rumors. My head is still spinning over the Phillies giving a 36 year-old outfielder $16 Million for two years. If there is a GM who needs to be fired, quickly, it's Reuben Amaro Jr.