2013 Pro Wrestling Thread

[Gehrig]

I was thinking about Starccade. For eighteen years, Starrcade was JCP/WCW's biggest show of the year. Dating back even further than Wrestlemania and serving as JCP's first PPV, it has a reputation of being WCW's definitve event. Yet, the amount of talk Starrcade receives isn't nearly in the Wrestlemania ballpark. Perhaps it's because we haven't seen a new Starrcade in eleven years or perhaps it's because WCW failed to make it as memorable as it's WWE counterpart. That changes now.

What do you feel is the single best Starrcade event? Perhaps 1983 with the killer three punch combo of Stemaboat/Youngblood vs Briscos, Valentine/Piper and Race/Flair. Maybe it's the PPV debut with the infamous dusty finish to Brainbusters/Road Warriors and Ric Flair regaining the title in a steel cage. Maybe we prefer 1995's co-event with New Japan Pro Wrestling where you got to see your favorite WCW talents collide with the likes of Muta, Chono and Liger.

Meanwhile, what do you feel is the best match in Starrcade history? Sure, Vader vs Flair in 1993 won the WWE.com contest to be ranked #1 on the Starrcade DVD, but perhaps you have a different choice?

Lastly, how do you feel Starrcade compared to Wrestlemania? Was it truly WCW's answer to Wrestlemania or was it a concept that had never fully realized it's potential?

In addition, feel free to talk about all of your favorite and least favorite Starrcade moments over the course of it's eighteen years of existence.

 

[Gutter]

I really didn't start following WCW until Nitro debuted in fall 1995, but I did go back and watch some of the late 80s/early 90s Starrcade matches.

With that said, while it definitely isn't the best "wrestling" match in Starrcade history, I don't know how there can be a bigger, more hyped match than Hogan/Sting at Starrcade '97.



Over a year build-up went into this (Sting had last wrestled in summer 1996) ... and unlike Rock/Cena, there was progression in this storyline almost every week. To WCW's credit, they built it up almost perfectly. Betrayed by WCW? Was he aligned with the NWO? Every week, people were looking up to the rafters to see if he was there. Plus, it was a great transformation of character to the Crow gimmick. In today's day of hot-shotting angles (or completely forgetting about them), this is a good reminder how effective a slow build can be.

Too bad the match's finish was completely forked by Bret Hart's involvement.

 

[Petrie]

I really didn't start following WCW until Nitro debuted in fall 1995, but I did go back and watch some of the late 80s/early 90s Starrcade matches.

With that said, while it definitely isn't the best "wrestling" match in Starrcade history, I don't know how there can be a bigger, more hyped match than Hogan/Sting at Starrcade '97.



Over a year build-up went into this (Sting had last wrestled in summer 1996) ... and unlike Rock/Cena, there was progression in this storyline almost every week. To WCW's credit, they built it up almost perfectly. Betrayed by WCW? Was he aligned with the NWO? Every week, people were looking up to the rafters to see if he was there. Plus, it was a great transformation of character to the Crow gimmick. In today's day of hot-shotting angles (or completely forgetting about them), this is a good reminder how effective a slow build can be.

Too bad the match's finish was completely forked by Bret Hart's involvement.

1. The ref forked the finish as well by not actually fast-counting Hogan's cover. Bret came out and complained about what actually was a normal 3 count.
2. Speaking of Bret Hart, was there any worse way to use him than WCW did in his 2-plus-year tenure, starting with his involvement in this match?

 

[Baron Scicluna]

Too bad the match's finish was completely forked by Bret Hart's involvement.

I can't blame Hart for it. He was given a stupid role as guest referee. It was supposed to be a "Whose side is he on?", which is fair, but having him as a ref was pretty lame. Would have been better if he would have just come out at the end, stared at both guys, and walked away. At the same time though, he had a broken hand from punching out Vince, and he had a brief do-not-compete, which made him sit out for a couple of months.

I'm trying to rack my brain on if he could have been used any worse. I suppose they could have had him team up with Buff Bagwell's mom. Still, it was awful. He first came to WCW, and his first matches were against Flair and Hennig, guys we'd seen him wrestle a bunch of times in WWF. Not too smart.

Not to mention with Starrcade, WCW screwed up the follow-up the next night on Nitro, in one of the dumbest storylines ever, by having an "unnamed judge" impound the tape, so we all couldn't see what the "controversy" was. Really? Why the fork, in the long history of pro wrestling controversies, would some activist judge suddenly come forward and impound the tape, and why? (in reality, they were watching what WWF was doing on Raw, and they were waiting until the exact moment Vince & Co.were going to do something good in order to spring the tape on us. Yes, they were booking a show that millions of people were watching with no clue what was going to happen five minutes later). And we never did find out this judge's name. At least with the WWF, they planned it out in advance, and actually had Mills Lane do a couple of Titantron appearances, which not only made it fun, but gave the angle some credibility.

I didn't really follow NWA/WCW that much in the 80s because they weren't televised where I was. Mostly through the Apter mags, so I can't really compare Starrcade to WCW. I'd think that the big issue, and why it's not seen as a WM equal, is that the company was regional for most of the 80s. They even tried Chicago the one year with Ronnie Garvin as champ, and that show fell flat.

 

[Gutter]

That's what I meant by Bret Hart's involvement. Not that he personally screwed it up, the storyline that had him involved in the first place screwed it up.

 

[Gehrig]

The other thing that hurt Starrcade was not having the babyface win the Title at the end of the show. You look at Wrestlemania and every forking year, they ended it with the babyface holding the belt. It was a pretty huge deal when Triple H finally left a Mania with the World Title.

Meanwhile, a look at the guys who left Starrcade as World Champion:

*Note* If both the WCW and NWA/International title were around, I'm only counting the WCW World Title.

1983 - Ric Flair (Face)
1984 - Ric Flair (Heel)
1985 - Ric Flair (Heel)
1986 - Ric Flair (Heel)
1987 - Ric Flair (Heel)
1988 - Ric Flair (Heel)
1989 - Ric Flair (Face)
1990 - Sting (Face)
1991 - Lex Luger (Heel)
1992 - Ron Simmons (Face)
1993 - Ric Flair (Face)
1994 - Hulk Hogan (Face)
1995 - Ric Flair (Heel)
1996 - Hollywood Hogan (Heel)
1997 - Sting (Face)
1998 - Kevin Nash (Face)
1999 - Bret Hart (Face)
2000 - Scott Steiner (Heel)

Now, of those face champions (9 out of 18), only four won the belt on the show. One of which had it instantly stripped of him though. The crazy stat is that it took the WWE a mere 8 Wrestlemanias before they had 4 babyfaces win the title at the show.

Probably the best example of Starrcade at it's peak of what it should be, was in '83. The huge feud between Race and Flair finally came to an end with the beloved babyface winning the World Title. The babyfaces of Steamboat/Youngblood won the tag titles against the heel Briscos. The epic feud of Valentine/Piper came to an end in a gimmick match with the face going over.

It also benefitted from not having the competition of other big shows that year. Who knows, maybe Starrcade could have remained a big deal had WCW not went crazy with adding new PPV's after 1987.

 

[Tommy_Dreamer]

Hmmmm. Any chance Punk beats Rock at the Rumble setting up a streak vs. streak match vs. Taker at WM?

I mean seriously, Rock/Cena don't need the belt.

 

[schiezainc]

Hmmmm. Any chance Punk beats Rock at the Rumble setting up a streak vs. streak match vs. Taker at WM?

I mean seriously, Rock/Cena don't need the belt.

I doubt Taker has one more title run in him. That's my biggest concern with Rock as well.
I imagine they'll give Dwayne the title at Rumble just for the PR of having him be the current WWE champion heading into Mania but I can't imagine he'll be at every Raw on the road to Mania.
heck, I just saw a story yesterday that said the guy has give movies coming out in the first six months of 2013.
My bet is Rock takes the belt at Rumble, appears via satellite at most Raws, drops the title at EC to Punk/Cena and goes to Mania in a triple threat against the two.
My hope, however, is that we get Punk-Taker as I feel like that could be the last real thing we need to get Punk over legit as a main eventer in the WWE.
Lord knows we're all going to get HHH-Lesnar again and if we get a repeat of last year's Rock-Cena, where nothing actually comes from the match, it would be nice if something happens at Mania that affects the longterm future of the company in a good way.

 

[KYSportsWriter]

I completely forgot about the EC show.

The E will probably do something stupid to screw up the story line, so I'm trying not to get my hopes up too high.

And I may be the only guy on the planet who's eager to see Brock return -- again. I've always liked him.

 

[schiezainc]

I think the biggest question is going to be 'Who wins the Rumble?'
I mean, you're currently looking at Punk and Big Show as the two champions and it wouldn't surprise me if neither has the strap heading into Mania but who gets the big bump from winning Rumble? My guess is either Sheamus, Orton, Cena or Rock.
I think whoever wins that is going to determine who walks away from EC with the belts.

 

[KYSportsWriter]

Doesn't the Rumble winner get their shot at Mania?

 

[ucacm]

At this point, Orton seems like a good bet. Dude has is still incredibly over, but he's been out of the title picture for quite a while now. Maybe Daniel Bryan? Sheamus winning again would be really bad.