2014 NFL off-season thread

[Boom_70]

Bad play calling or a stupid throw by Kaepernick?

My opinion... Last year was on Roman. This year was on Kaepernick.

I put both on Roman and Harbaugh. They had whole effin year to come
up with a better Red Zone plan then just flinging the fade to Crabtree.

 

[93Devil]

Bad play calling or a stupid throw by Kaepernick?

You could say bad play-calling in the Super Bowl -- Kaepernick is not a good thrower of the fade and it isn't Crabtree's strength catching it either.

This year it was all on Kaepernick -- took a needless gamble into double coverage with plenty of time left. He even said afterward that was the only place he was looking.

There was a play or two before that where they were called for a delay or had to burn a timeout because clock was winding down, and a coaching buddy of mine said if they could have gotten the play snapped they would have won the Super Bowl because the defense the Ravens were in would have allowed San Fran to walk into the end zone, but San Fran never got the ball snapped, and the Ravens changed their defense.

I forget how that worked out exactly, but that play where they called time, was where they really lost the game.

http://www.ninersnation.com/2013/2/7/3964044/super-bowl-47-49ers-final-drive

It was a designed run left, and they had the blockers to let Kaep walk in.

 

[LongTimeListener]

That has been common knowledge for more than the past year. But it took them too long to get the play in. (It was the third-down play FYI.) That dithering with the play clock has been a frequent and maddening trait of the Harbaugh/Roman/Kaepernick offense.

 

[Steak Snabler]

Franchise tag for Jimmy Graham. No surprise:

http://www.nola.com/saints/index.ssf/2014/02/new_orleans_saints_place_franc_1.html#incart_orangestrip

 

[Songbird]

I think Gruden was perfect for the segment with Manziel. He was overbearing to the point of making Manziel uncomfortable. You could see it in his body language. He could have tried to be cutesy with his answers or act too cool for the moment but Gruden put the kid on his heels. Wright Thompson's piece was pretty good in the sense that it gave you insight into Manziel's immaturity, but the kid has grown up the last 6-7 months. Still a ways to go but again, this interview showed he's determined to get there. Can't help but appreciate that.

 

[LongTimeListener]

Franchise tag for Jimmy Graham. No surprise:

http://www.nola.com/saints/index.ssf/2014/02/new_orleans_saints_place_franc_1.html#incart_orangestrip

I am interested in this fight about whether he is a tight end or a wide receiver, but I don't see how he can be classified as anything but a tight end. He's a nightmare matchup BECAUSE he is a tight end. If he's a wide receiver, it's a whole different set of athlete that's guarding him. (And, if I'm the Saints, I'm going into the grievance hearing armed with the Patriots game tape to show the arbitrator what happens when Graham is treated as such.)

 

[joe king]

Franchise tag for Jimmy Graham. No surprise:

http://www.nola.com/saints/index.ssf/2014/02/new_orleans_saints_place_franc_1.html#incart_orangestrip

I am interested in this fight about whether he is a tight end or a wide receiver, but I don't see how he can be classified as anything but a tight end. He's a nightmare matchup BECAUSE he is a tight end. If he's a wide receiver, it's a whole different set of athlete that's guarding him. (And, if I'm the Saints, I'm going into the grievance hearing armed with the Patriots game tape to show the arbitrator what happens when Graham is treated as such.)

Well, the deal is that as a WR he's too big and strong for corners to handle -- with rare exceptions -- and as a TE he's too fast and athletic for linebackers and safeties to handle. So regardless of which set of athletes is guarding him, he's still a nightmare matchup.

This is not cut and dried. The Saints do split him out wide A LOT -- 67 percent of his snaps, according to this story -- and he doesn't block very much (and he isn't very good at it when he does). The new CBA says a player's franchise tag salary is based on the position at which he played the most snaps in the previous season. There is a very good case to be made that Jimmy Graham is really more of a large, physical wideout than a tight end and should be paid as such if he's franchised.

 

[LongTimeListener]

Franchise tag for Jimmy Graham. No surprise:

http://www.nola.com/saints/index.ssf/2014/02/new_orleans_saints_place_franc_1.html#incart_orangestrip

I am interested in this fight about whether he is a tight end or a wide receiver, but I don't see how he can be classified as anything but a tight end. He's a nightmare matchup BECAUSE he is a tight end. If he's a wide receiver, it's a whole different set of athlete that's guarding him. (And, if I'm the Saints, I'm going into the grievance hearing armed with the Patriots game tape to show the arbitrator what happens when Graham is treated as such.)

Well, the deal is that as a WR he's too big and strong for corners to handle -- with rare exceptions -- and as a TE he's too fast and athletic for linebackers and safeties to handle. So regardless of which set of athletes is guarding him, he's still a nightmare matchup.

This is not cut and dried. The Saints do split him out wide A LOT -- 67 percent of his snaps, according to this story -- and he doesn't block very much (and he isn't very good at it when he does). The new CBA says a player's franchise tag salary is based on the position at which he played the most snaps in the previous season. There is a very good case to be made that Jimmy Graham is really more of a large, physical wideout than a tight end and should be paid as such if he's franchised.

He lines up wide two-thirds of the time, but against whom? My point is that the Saints still have two wide receivers on the field. And you can't cover a wide receiver with a linebacker or safety, ever. So Graham benefits from getting the optimal matchup, either against a nickel or linebacker or safety. I'd be very interested to know how many times he squared off against a starting corner. And that's his value, that he's a freak and a matchup nightmare at tight end. As a receiver? He'd be a really big but kind of slow guy.

What we're talking about is where to classify him when figuring the top five salaries at his position. I don't know exactly whose contract is where for that exercise, but think of who the top five receivers in the NFL are. Off the top of my head, I'll go Calvin Johnson, A.J. Green, Josh Gordon, Julio Jones, Dez Bryant. Already I'm leaving out the Bears duo, Demaryius Thomas and a lot of other guys.

If Graham were actually a wide receiver, he wouldn't make anybody's top 15.

 

[joe king]

Franchise tag for Jimmy Graham. No surprise:

http://www.nola.com/saints/index.ssf/2014/02/new_orleans_saints_place_franc_1.html#incart_orangestrip

I am interested in this fight about whether he is a tight end or a wide receiver, but I don't see how he can be classified as anything but a tight end. He's a nightmare matchup BECAUSE he is a tight end. If he's a wide receiver, it's a whole different set of athlete that's guarding him. (And, if I'm the Saints, I'm going into the grievance hearing armed with the Patriots game tape to show the arbitrator what happens when Graham is treated as such.)

Well, the deal is that as a WR he's too big and strong for corners to handle -- with rare exceptions -- and as a TE he's too fast and athletic for linebackers and safeties to handle. So regardless of which set of athletes is guarding him, he's still a nightmare matchup.

This is not cut and dried. The Saints do split him out wide A LOT -- 67 percent of his snaps, according to this story -- and he doesn't block very much (and he isn't very good at it when he does). The new CBA says a player's franchise tag salary is based on the position at which he played the most snaps in the previous season. There is a very good case to be made that Jimmy Graham is really more of a large, physical wideout than a tight end and should be paid as such if he's franchised.

He lines up wide two-thirds of the time, but against whom? My point is that the Saints still have two wide receivers on the field. And you can't cover a wide receiver with a linebacker or safety, ever. So Graham benefits from getting the optimal matchup, either against a nickel or linebacker or safety. I'd be very interested to know how many times he squared off against a starting corner. And that's his value, that he's a freak and a matchup nightmare at tight end. As a receiver? He'd be a really big but kind of slow guy.

What we're talking about is where to classify him when figuring the top five salaries at his position. I don't know exactly whose contract is where for that exercise, but think of who the top five receivers in the NFL are. Off the top of my head, I'll go Calvin Johnson, A.J. Green, Josh Gordon, Julio Jones, Dez Bryant. Already I'm leaving out the Bears duo, Demaryius Thomas and a lot of other guys.

If Graham were actually a wide receiver, he wouldn't make anybody's top 15.

That's fine, but that's not the issue. When a team franchises a player, no one has to prove he's among the top five players at his position. The team just agrees to pay him like one of the top five players at his position (ostensibly because it believes he is, but just as often it's because it can't afford to lose him and can't find someone as good to replace him).

And the language in the CBA is pretty clear -- the salary is based on the position "at which he participated in the most plays during the prior League Year." You can call him whatever you want, but he can argue (and back it up with video) that he was split out as a wide receiver on the majority of his offensive snaps. I don't know if he'll get the ruling he wants, but it is not an easy call.

And for the record, in terms of production, Graham was finished 13th in the league with 86 receptions -- Tony Gonzalez (18th with 83 catches) was the only other player listed as a TE in the top 20 and the only other one to reach 80 catches -- and was 15th with 1,215 yards, the only listed TE to reach 1,000 yards. His average of 14.1 yards per catch matched that of Julio Jones and was better than Dez Bryant, Brandon Marshall, Victor Cruz, T.Y. Hilton, Andre Johnson, Mike Wallace and teammate Marques Colston, among others. And, of course, he led the league with 16 touchdown catches.

If he was considered a WR, he'd be in the conversation for the title of the best slot receiver in the game -- he is already, regardless of what position you say he plays.

 

[LongTimeListener]

Franchise tag for Jimmy Graham. No surprise:

http://www.nola.com/saints/index.ssf/2014/02/new_orleans_saints_place_franc_1.html#incart_orangestrip

I am interested in this fight about whether he is a tight end or a wide receiver, but I don't see how he can be classified as anything but a tight end. He's a nightmare matchup BECAUSE he is a tight end. If he's a wide receiver, it's a whole different set of athlete that's guarding him. (And, if I'm the Saints, I'm going into the grievance hearing armed with the Patriots game tape to show the arbitrator what happens when Graham is treated as such.)

Well, the deal is that as a WR he's too big and strong for corners to handle -- with rare exceptions -- and as a TE he's too fast and athletic for linebackers and safeties to handle. So regardless of which set of athletes is guarding him, he's still a nightmare matchup.

This is not cut and dried. The Saints do split him out wide A LOT -- 67 percent of his snaps, according to this story -- and he doesn't block very much (and he isn't very good at it when he does). The new CBA says a player's franchise tag salary is based on the position at which he played the most snaps in the previous season. There is a very good case to be made that Jimmy Graham is really more of a large, physical wideout than a tight end and should be paid as such if he's franchised.

He lines up wide two-thirds of the time, but against whom? My point is that the Saints still have two wide receivers on the field. And you can't cover a wide receiver with a linebacker or safety, ever. So Graham benefits from getting the optimal matchup, either against a nickel or linebacker or safety. I'd be very interested to know how many times he squared off against a starting corner. And that's his value, that he's a freak and a matchup nightmare at tight end. As a receiver? He'd be a really big but kind of slow guy.

What we're talking about is where to classify him when figuring the top five salaries at his position. I don't know exactly whose contract is where for that exercise, but think of who the top five receivers in the NFL are. Off the top of my head, I'll go Calvin Johnson, A.J. Green, Josh Gordon, Julio Jones, Dez Bryant. Already I'm leaving out the Bears duo, Demaryius Thomas and a lot of other guys.

If Graham were actually a wide receiver, he wouldn't make anybody's top 15.

That's fine, but that's not the issue. When a team franchises a player, it doesn't have to prove he's among the top five players at his position. They just agree to pay him like one of the top five players at his position (ostensibly because they believe he is, but just as often it's because they can't afford to lose him and can't find someone as good to replace him).

And the language in the CBA is pretty clear -- the salary is based on the position "at which he participated in the most plays during the prior League Year." You can call him whatever you want, but he can argue (and back it up with video) that he was split out as a wide receiver on the majority of his offensive snaps. I don't know if he'll get the ruling he wants, but it is not an easy call.

And for the record, in terms of production, Graham was finished 13th in the league with 86 receptions -- Tony Gonzalez (18th with 83 catches) was the only other player listed as a TE in the top 20 and the only other one to reach 80 catches -- and was 15th with 1,215 yards, the only listed TE to reach 1,000 yards. His average of 14.1 yards per catch matched that of Julio Jones and was better than Dez Bryant, Brandon Marshall, Victor Cruz, T.Y. Hilton, Andre Johnson, Mike Wallace and teammate Marques Colston, among others. And, of course, he led the league with 16 touchdown catches.

If he was considered a WR, he'd be in the conversation for the title of the best slot receiver in the game -- he is already, regardless of what position you say he plays.

I think we're in a circular argument here, joe, because you're citing stats that have him in the upper echelon and I'm again saying he doesn't have to go against the best pass defenders and that's why the stats are what they are. I mean, I really hope you wouldn't say he averaged the same yardage as Julio and is thus on par with Julio (or anywhere close) as a receiver. That would be really wacky. And, again, regardless of where he lines up, there are two other receivers on the field occupying the other team's two best pass defenders.

"Best slot receiver" isn't much when you're talking salary. You'd rather be paid as the best tight end than the best slot receiver, that's for sure.

 

[JC]

It doesn't differentiate between slot and wide. From what I've heard he should be franchised at the receiver position if you go by the CBA.

 

[LongTimeListener]

It doesn't differentiate between slot and wide. From what I've heard he should be franchised at the receiver position if you go by the CBA.

I don't think it's nearly that cut and dried.

But I do think they'll end up splitting the difference anyway, maybe a little more to Graham's side.