2015 Baseball HOF ballot released

[Della9250]

Mike Berardino goes the no Pedro or Johnson route to vote for 10 guys who might need the help more, namely Trammell and Walker

 

[JC]

Just for effect, JC. Way too much moral relativity and general recoiling at the prospect of judging/being judged in the culture today. Your (generically speaking) self-esteem isn't more important than society's norms, no matter how many trophies you get just for showing up.

Every behavior and value isn't eeeeequal. Some are better than others. And we're all being judged all the time. Only the bad guys would like living in a world where it didn't happen.

Ridiculous

 

[RecoveringJournalist]

Mike Berardino goes the no Pedro or Johnson route to vote for 10 guys who might need the help more, namely Trammell and Walker

Is it realistic that either Walker or Trammell will ever be voted in?

Trammell has lost a lot of support over the last couple years, which is not usually a good sign. I get the sense that people are voting for them to keep them on the ballot rather than because they actually think they deserve to make it into Cooperstown.

 

[Guy_Incognito]

Is it realistic that either Walker or Trammell will ever be voted in?

Trammell has lost a lot of support over the last couple years, which is not usually a good sign. I get the sense that people are voting for them to keep them on the ballot rather than because they actually think they deserve to make it into Cooperstown.

I think Trammel deserves it. I don't see a meaningful difference between him, Biggio, Larkin, Sandberg etc.

 

[RecoveringJournalist]

I think Trammel deserves it. I don't see a meaningful difference between him, Biggio, Larkin, Sandberg etc.

I tend to agree. Trammell's biggest crime for most of his career was being overshadowed by Ripken.

 

[Della9250]

A Walker vote is definitely to keep him on the ballot. He is in single-digits percentage wise and in danger of slipping off.

A Trammell vote is somewhat of a waste. He's right around where he's been the last five years -- low 20s to mid 30s. His last year is next year and the only reasoning is that if he could get a bump into the low 40s this time, maybe enough people would make a big push in his last vote, especially since there should be a lot of slots on the 10-ballot voters not including him.

Trammell and Whitaker would be an obvious Expansion Committee pairing for a Detroit HOF weekend

 

[Della9250]

I do believe that almost all of the Trammell vote came from Larkin voters/those who feel if Larkin is in, why not Trammell.

And Trammell's second biggest crime is the writers picking George Bell as MVP.

 

[RecoveringJournalist]

I do believe that almost all of the Trammell vote came from Larkin voters/those who feel if Larkin is in, why not Trammell.

And Trammell's second biggest crime is the writers picking George Bell as MVP.

It's kind of the Gary Carter vs. Ted Simmons debate.

 

[Joe Williams]

Ridiculous

Wow, I'm suddenly persuaded.

 

[ryanb]

I think Trammel deserves it. I don't see a meaningful difference between him, Biggio, Larkin, Sandberg etc.

Biggio had a higher OPS, over 100 more home runs and nearly 200 more stolen bases. He also played multiple positions well and a 557 more games. They aren't exactly the same case by any means.

 

[Guy_Incognito]

Biggio had a higher OPS, over 100 more home runs and nearly 200 more stolen bases. He also played multiple positions well and a 557 more games. They aren't exactly the same case by any means.

The extra hrs and sbs are largely a product of the extra games, so how many times are you going to give him credit for longevity?
Biggio also played in a better offensive era, and at least part of his career in a bandbox.
SS is a more demanding position than 2b or cf. why should that give Biggio extra points? Does Carew have an edge over other middle infielders because he moved to 1b when he got old?

 

[ryanb]

The extra hrs and sbs are largely a product of the extra games, so how many times are you going to give him credit for longevity?
Biggio also played in a better offensive era, and at least part of his career in a bandbox.
SS is a more demanding position than 2b or cf. why should that give Biggio extra points? Does Carew have an edge over other middle infielders because he moved to 1b when he got old?

Biggio didn't move because he couldn't handle catcher any more, and he later moved to a more demanding position when he switched from outfield to second base.

Minute Maid Park opened in 2000, when Biggio was 34 years old. He played his home in arguably the worst hitter's park in the majors, the Astrodome, for his first 11 full major league seasons. If you want to get into ballparks, his numbers were suppressed by his home field for the best years of his career.

That wasn't just a few more home runs and stolen bases. That was a very large gap, due to more than just longevity. Trammell reached 30 stolen bases in a season once, when he had exactly 30 in 1983. He was caught 10 times that season and 109 in his career, so his success rate was only 68.4 percent. Biggio surpassed 30 steals four times, including 47 in 1997 and 50 in '98. He led the league with 39 steals in the strike-shortened 1994 season. He was caught only 124 times total, giving him a 77% success rate.

Biggio also hit at least 20 home runs in a season eight times, four of them while the Astros played in the Astrodome. Trammell did it twice.