2015 Baseball HOF ballot released

[Della9250]

There are at least 10 voters who used all 10 slots and didn't vote for Piazza. So there could be a third of the votes he needs right there

 

[BB Bobcat]

One thing that bothers me about the discussion is the idea that it's the writers who have prevented the steroid guys from getting in.

Steroids caused them not to be in.

I believe that any group - fans, broadcasters, players - would have the same division over the steroid issue, making 75 percent support impossible.

 

[Della9250]

The problem with that is no one can come to an agreement on who a steroid guy is.

 

[outofplace]

One thing that bothers me about the discussion is the idea that it's the writers who have prevented the steroid guys from getting in.

Steroids caused them not to be in.

I believe that any group - fans, broadcasters, players - would have the same division over the steroid issue, making 75 percent support impossible.

Della nailed it. I can understand division regarding guys who are proven PED users, but that's not all that is happening here. Voters are punishing players based on suspicion with very thin or no evidence at all. That isn't right.

 

[Dick Whitman]

You won't like this oop, but my biggest problem isn't seeing Bonds, Clemens and other in the Hall, though I'm still undecided about that. What I can't stomach is seeing them feted at an induction ceremony, with its subtext that excellence in the sport is a moral accomplishment.

 

[outofplace]

You won't like this oop, but my biggest problem isn't seeing Bonds, Clemens and other in the Hall, though I'm still undecided about that. What I can't stomach is seeing them feted at an induction ceremony, with its subtext that excellence in the sport is a moral accomplishment.

There are bad guys in the Hall of Fame. There are bad guys in every sport's hall of fame. This includes men who cheated in one way or another. You care more about it than I do, but I don't dislike your feelings on the matter.

Again, my primary issue is with voters punishing those they do not really know to be guilty and those who are forgetting to answer the simple question. Is this guy a hall of famer or not?

 

[Della9250]

My problem with the whole thing is that the Expansion Committee had no problem putting in three managers who had guys on their teams fall under a certain category and will have no problem inducting Selig here in the next five years or so. But the players are the only ones who pay a price.

And I get that there are different degrees on steroids. Personally, if you are suspended for PEDs, I wouldn't vote for that player (Palmeiro, A-Rod, Braun, Manny, etc). But when there are no rules against it, why is it any different than what past generations did to gain an advantage based on what was available at the time.

 

[Steak Snabler]

Plain-Dealer's Paul Hoynes says he "wrestled with" the idea of Pedro Martinez as a Hall of Famer, saying he was a "punk" on the mound, citing numerous brushback pitches and the infamous Don Zimmer incident in the 2003 playoffs:

http://www.cleveland.com/tribe/index.ssf/2015/01/coming_clean_about_why_i_didnt.html

Two things:

1. I wonder how Hoynes would have voted for Bob Gibson, who also fit Hoynes' definition of "punk" on the mound.

2. What exactly was Pedro supposed to do when Zimmer charged him? Let Zimmer punch him in the nose? Worse, let Zimmer tackle him and maybe drive his pitching shoulder into the ground? Pedro did the only thing he could do in that situation. If that embarrassed Don Zimmer, he shouldn't have tried to fight a guy 40 years younger than him.

 

[JackReacher]

He says he would have voted for him.

 

[Della9250]

What's worse about Hoynes -- he didn't vote because the ballot got lost and he didn't realize it and the deadline to get another one passed. Way to take that seriously.

 

[JackReacher]

I mean, that seems like it could be a legit excuse, no? He thinks he brought it in with the mail. And when he realizes he didn't, it's too late to get another? I've done that more than once, with things way more important than the forking Baseball HOF ballot.

 

[Dick Whitman]

My problem with the whole thing is that the Expansion Committee had no problem putting in three managers who had guys on their teams fall under a certain category and will have no problem inducting Selig here in the next five years or so. But the players are the only ones who pay a price.

And I get that there are different degrees on steroids. Personally, if you are suspended for PEDs, I wouldn't vote for that player (Palmeiro, A-Rod, Braun, Manny, etc). But when there are no rules against it, why is it any different than what past generations did to gain an advantage based on what was available at the time.

This argument gets made a lot, but I think it's completely reasonable to distinguish between greenies and the type of PEDs these guys were using. That goes both for the effect on performance, the health dangers (I know this is a topic of some debate), and society/sports's ethical stance on them. Steroids have been well-known as being beyond the pale of fair play for decades.