7 dead, 7 wounded in Santa Barbara shooting rampage

[Alma]

So what is the solution? Or are we all foolish to think there might be a way to prevent this from happening as frequently as it seems to be happening?

I'm not suggesting on any level that it's an easy fix or that any specific moves prevent this from happening again, but having covered one of these shootings, I get sick every time it happens again. I remember after covering one, someone told me, "You have to realize that there won't be anything like this again." and while I wanted to believe that at the time, that person could not have been more wrong.

There's no solution.

NRA wins. Get used to it.

One day, the NRA will lose and probably lose big. It's not a question of "if" but "how."

We are in one most conservative eras of American history. It'll end. And we'll move on.

What do you mean by "one of the most conservative eras of American history"? And how exactly does that "conservative era" -- as you define liberalism versus conservatism -- relate to people who are gun happy.

Are we more conservative than when gay marriage didn't exist at all? More conservative than when pot wasn't being legalized in places? More conservative than when some states enforced segregation of the races? More conservative than when our Congress was issuing subpoenas, accusing people of being communists and trying to frighten them into naming names? More conservative than when women weren't allowed to vote? Or when slavery was legal? Or when we had anti-sedition laws?

OK, we're not. You think we're in the height of the liberal age, you go ahead and think that.

I'll set aside your dragging of slavery into the matter, since the original sin of America seems to transcend, in my opinion, easy labels of conservative or liberal.

 

[93Devil]

So what is the solution? Or are we all foolish to think there might be a way to prevent this from happening as frequently as it seems to be happening?

I'm not suggesting on any level that it's an easy fix or that any specific moves prevent this from happening again, but having covered one of these shootings, I get sick every time it happens again. I remember after covering one, someone told me, "You have to realize that there won't be anything like this again." and while I wanted to believe that at the time, that person could not have been more wrong.

The next one is already plotting his Day of Retribution, scrawling his insipid manifesto.
We are well into Decline of the Roman Empire, Pt. II territory here, at this stage of the program.

I agree.

Capitalism is pushing the envelope again and again, and it will break sooner or later.

Everything we argue about in America comes down to money. If you don't think this isn't about money and greed, well, it's about money.

 

[Alma]

So what is the solution? Or are we all foolish to think there might be a way to prevent this from happening as frequently as it seems to be happening?

I'm not suggesting on any level that it's an easy fix or that any specific moves prevent this from happening again, but having covered one of these shootings, I get sick every time it happens again. I remember after covering one, someone told me, "You have to realize that there won't be anything like this again." and while I wanted to believe that at the time, that person could not have been more wrong.

Solution to what? Curbing mass murder? Precogs.

Seriously, I don't think there is a tipping point. This is America today. There's a lot to love and not love about it.

 

[Stoney]

If you don't think this isn't about money and greed, well, it's about money.

Not quite following here. Money appears to be the one thing this lunatic DID have going for him. How did money cause this one?

 

[93Devil]

Bob Knight said once that the greatest word in the English language is "no." The worst is "yes."

Once you have said "yes," it is very difficult to change it to a "no." But you can always change a "no" to a "yes."

We have said "yes" too many times to guns, and changing that to a "no" is going to be very hard to do.

I think some of the more insane weapons, though, will start to be outlawed and possibly a national registration system for all weapons will come, but that won't be for another 20-30 years.

We will always have guns, but what we allow now borders on the insane.

 

[93Devil]

If you don't think this isn't about money and greed, well, it's about money.

Not quite following here. Money appears to be the one thing this lunatic DID have going for him. How did money cause this one?

How is the NRA getting its funding?

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/wonkblog/wp/2012/12/19/seven-facts-about-the-u-s-gun-industry/

Almost a billion in profits and $11.7 billion in sales.

 

[Stoney]

If you don't think this isn't about money and greed, well, it's about money.

Not quite following here. Money appears to be the one thing this lunatic DID have going for him. How did money cause this one?

How is the NRA getting its funding?

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/wonkblog/wp/2012/12/19/seven-facts-about-the-u-s-gun-industry/

Almost a billion in profits and $11.7 billion in sales.

Well I, of course, know the NRA's power derives from money. But I was under the impression in your prior post (perhaps mistakenly) that you were suggesting that the this tragedy's causes were rooted in money. That's what I didn't get. Some ugly resentments fueled this kid's rage, but financial envy was plainly not one of them.

 

[93Devil]

If you don't think this isn't about money and greed, well, it's about money.

Not quite following here. Money appears to be the one thing this lunatic DID have going for him. How did money cause this one?

How is the NRA getting its funding?

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/wonkblog/wp/2012/12/19/seven-facts-about-the-u-s-gun-industry/

Almost a billion in profits and $11.7 billion in sales.

Well I, of course, know the NRA's power derives from money. But I was under the impression in your prior post (perhaps mistakenly) that you were suggesting that the this tragedy's causes were rooted in money. That's what I didn't get. Some ugly resentments fueled this kid's rage, but financial envy was plainly not one of them.

I could see that, but the root of all these very loose gun restrictions is tied to the NRA.

 

[old_tony]

And @RickStain, like it or not that was the mindset of the drafters of the Second.

You are absolutely right. The semantic "well-regulated militia" argument just doesn't hold up, as far as I'm concerned. The clause is declarative and the right is listed out pretty unambiguously, regardless of the reasoning listed before it. It doesn't say "The right of the people to keep and bear arms as part of a well-regulated militia shall not be infringed." And the founders clearly didn't mean it that way.

Fortunately, I don't give two craps what some outdated document says or what people whose grandchildren are all dead meant. Guns are harming our society, and if the governing document of our society prevents us from fixing that harm, then it is the document that is in err. And it's not as if we don't have a long history of radically reinterpreting it or ignoring it as our needs evolve.

So all the justification you need to ignore a law is the people who passed it died long ago?

I guess that eliminates most laws.

 

[doctorquant]

If you don't think this isn't about money and greed, well, it's about money.

Not quite following here. Money appears to be the one thing this lunatic DID have going for him. How did money cause this one?

How is the NRA getting its funding?

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/wonkblog/wp/2012/12/19/seven-facts-about-the-u-s-gun-industry/

Almost a billion in profits and $11.7 billion in sales.

Well I, of course, know the NRA's power derives from money. But I was under the impression in your prior post (perhaps mistakenly) that you were suggesting that the this tragedy's causes were rooted in money. That's what I didn't get. Some ugly resentments fueled this kid's rage, but financial envy was plainly not one of them.

I could see that, but the root of all these very loose gun restrictions is tied to the NRA.

The root of all these very loose gun restrictions* is the Second Amendment of the Constitution of the United States (and related jurisprudence). Have you ever heard of that document? Is there not an SOL that covers that? Or is there simply not enough time in the day, what with all the effort devoted to putting together "Don't smoke" and "Recycle" and "Use words, not guns" assessment rubrics?




*Is "very loose gun restrictions" antonymous to "rigidly controlled gun freedoms"?

 

[93Devil]

Can you name one nation that has gun laws anywhere near accommodating to gun owners as America?

If not, then the word "loose" applies.

 

[doctorquant]

Your posts are exhibiting an increasing reduction in sagacity and diminishing growth in coherence.