All Purpose NBA Thread I

No, the person whose running out of fingers in the dam is not me, CT. You want to pump up Shaq's contributions so you can say Kobe deserves the MVP more than Wade. But you don't want to pump up Shaq too much, because that will also make Kobe look weak.

That's the unfortunate part of being on the losing side of an argument, after awhile, the roof begins to cave-in and there isn't any way to stem the tide.

Kobe isn't an MVP, never was, and it doesn't look like he ever will be. At this point in their careers, Wade is better than Kobe, because he is a better defender and he drives the lane like a beast, which Kobe used to do. Kobe's a better distance shooter, but Wade's overall FG % is superior.

Is Wade the MVP? He would have had a good chance, but he got hurt, so he's out.

What Wade gets that Kobe doesn't is the value of Shaq. If an 'old' Shaq is the MVP of the Heat, you can darn well bet that a prime Shaq was the MVP of the Lakers, which is why he has 3 Finals MVP's, and Kobe has none.

Everybody - save Kobe - realized that. And that's why Shaq is in MIA, winning at least one ring, and Kobe is eating popcorn - again - come the 2nd round. For the 3rd straight year.

The results don't lie. Shaq takes teams to the Finals. Kobe takes teams to the first round.

 

No, I'm not saying that. I actually said the opposite. That's why people tried to warn Kobe to NOT run off Shaq, that he was going to become "reverse MJ." But he thought he was different, he was the exception.

He was wrong, as the last 3 years have shown.

That's what I've been trying to say all along. None of what has happened in the last 3 years surprises me at all - not Kobe's breaking-down body, not the Lakers struggles, not Shaq's ring.

This is why PJax dissed Kobe in his book. People that have followed the game for some time saw this coming. People tried to warn Kobe, persuade him. But he wouldn't hear it.

As the commercial says: "Can you hear me now, Kobe?"

 

I'm losing the arugment!? HA! I keep making points, you keep running away from them or you just make up ridiculous ones. If anyone's roof is caving in, it's yours.

And hold on a second here my friend. You're the one that said "Kobe never should've ran Shaq out of town" and then you came back and said "DWade is the best the MVP".

And I've never said Kobe was the MVP of the those Laker teams......but he sure was important to them. You also talk as if the Shaq/Kobe marriage came out with nothing. 3 championships Rok. 3.

Have you been watching the Heat since DWade got injured? 15-7. Or how about when Shaq was out earlier in the year. The Heat weren't looking to good back then weren't they?

People tried to persuade Kobe? You never told me you were Ms. Cleo.

Kobe's breaking down body?! The guy had the had the best season of his career last year. Look up Rok, your roof is caving in.

 

Rok, my man ... you still haven't responded to my post.
I only bring it up again cuz you mention Shaq winning 3 Finals MVPs to Kobe's 0. I explained why Shaq dominated in the Finals, while Kobe led the way through the Western Conference playoffs. I only have two beefs with you, Rok. You only are able to argue your points, but rarely do I see you respond when someone makes a valid argument; or when things are going well for the Lakers (granted, it doesn't happen often these days, but it does happen), you're usually nowhere to be found. Only when they start losing do you pop your little head up and begin spouting your propaganda.

I know it's a longshot to happen, but if something were to happen and the Lakers won their first round series, I would bet almost anything you'd be nowhere to be found until they were defeated.

You're my boy, Rok, but you know I'm speaking the truth, bro!!!

 

CT: No, the 'losing argument' remark is not a reference to yours an my personal disagreement, it is to the larger argument between the "Kobe lovers" and the "Shaq lovers." The gap keeps getting wider and wider, and it has gotten increasingly difficult for the "Kobe lovers" to try and justify taking their guy's side. Since you are a Kobe lover, you feel the same burden that Shaq's accomplishments post-Lakers, and Kobe's lack of accomplishments post-Shaq, have put on all "Kobe lovers."

I, being a "Shaq guy," find much easier terrain. My guy was 2 minutes from the Finals two years ago, and won a ring last year. Your guy missed the playoffs, had 3 surgeries, choked a 3-1 lead in the playoffs, and is looking at getting blown-out of the first round this year. It's been an ugly 3 years for Kobe and the Lakers, as some of my threads here have documented.

It has been a very, very tough 3 years for the "Kobe guys." There are not enough fingers for the holes in the dike. Believe me, I fully appreciate the "Kobe guys'" weak, quicksand-esque position. And I'm glad I'm not in it.

You see, Shaq guys don't have to ramble on about All-Star MVP's, or scoring titles. We'll settle for rings and deep playoff runs, and taking our 3rd different team to the Finals.

That's what I mean by being on the 'losing side of an argument.' You're on the "Kobe guys'" side, and you and your brethren, vis-a-vis the Shaq guys, are getting destroyed in a Calzaghe-Lacy type of fashion.

I'm glad I picked the right guy. But I knew this is how it would play out, and that's why I picked him. I didn't buy the Nike hype, I didn't fall into the 'Next MJ' pitfall.

Kobe is getting exactly what he wanted, exactly what he deserves.

Shaq won. The fight is over, and the medics are coming for Kobe. Same way they came for Penny, the 'Next Magic.'

 

Rok, I'm gonna' say this again. Becuase this isn't sinking in for you.

The Lakers would be a good team if................

THEY HAD TALENT

You think the Lakers would've won a ring if they kept Shaq and let Kobe go?
Did Jordan win when he didn't have talent around him?

Answer please

 

Gimpy, like I said to Chuck, I responded to the whole 'frontrunner' thing in the deleted J. Hill/Kobe thread. I'm always around, and am happy to deconstruct Kobe at any time, win or lose. When you 'lead' a team to a .500 record over 3 years, there's always grist for the mill. If the Lakers win in the first round, I'll be here.

Your post deserves a response, I just haven't had the chance to do it yet. For that I apologize. It is correct for me to debate others' valid arguments, same as I would want my own debated. I'll get on it.

Crazy UFC weekend. I can't believe GSP lost, but I'm VERY happy Sanchez lost.

Peace.

 

CT -

They HAD talent, and then Kobe got all pissy and chased the talent off. Something about "I don't want to be his sidekick any more." GP wasn't sticking around, because he wanted to win a ring, and he knew it wasn't happening with Kobe.

Shaq - even at this age - is the black hole of the NBA. Guys just can't stay away from him because they know a ring is not far away. Kobe isn't, he's like the opposite. No one wants to play with him because they know he's a ballhog, and they won't win a ring. It would be cool if Kobe was a ballhog and he could win rings, but he's not winning anything, so people are like "You want me to play with HIM? NO FREAKING WAY." It's no accident that the Lakers can't bag a good free agent.

Remember, the Mailman signed for some absurdly low sum to play with the Lakers. To play with Shaq, to be precise. With Kobe as 'the draw' now, don't expect things like that to happen in LA.

They will, however, happen in MIA, as long as Shaq can play. Ask GP. Ask Eddie Jones.

To summarize: LAL doesn't have talent because Kobe drove the talent away. It's his fault. And they can't attract talent because no one wants to play with Kobe. That's where we're at, that's how we got here.

It's Kobe's show, and it's only about two plus weeks from ending, again, in the first round. Enjoy!

You know I will.

This whole fiasco with Kobe falls into the 'reaping what you sow' header. He wanted it, he's getting it. Couldn't happen to a nicer guy.

 

And speaking of hoops, what was that beat-down TOR put on CHI today? Where did that come from?

 

Have you talked with every NBA player in the league? How are you gonna prove this one with stats?

It is what it is Rok. They haven't won because they haven't had talent. You need talent to win. It's as simple as that. So 40+ with crap like that? That's amazing.

 

T-Mac, getting it done:

T. McGrady:

FGA: 14-28

3FGA: 3-6

FT: 9-12

Pts: 40

Rbs: 8

Asts: 10


T-Mac did have 6 TO's (ugh), as well as 2 Stls and 1 Blk.

Houston wins it's 48, and appears headed to a 50-win season.

T-Mac won't be the MVP, but he certainly deserves strong consideration for a top-5 finish. He has a great season, particularly after Yao went out with the knee fracture.

 

It's nice to see T-Mac back and yes, definitely deserves top 5. Here's how it's lookin' for me right now:
1. Kobe
2. Nash
3. Dirk
4. Chauncey
5. T-Mac