Another academic scandal; UNC is f-cked

[Captain_Kirk]

They should get the death penalty. Eighteen years of blatant fraud and corruption. And there's no way something goes on that long and everyone, and I mean everyone, doesn't know about it.

Per usual, agree with Wetzel's premise. And the NCAA better come down hard, very hard, on UNC if they have any hope whatsoever of holding on to the tenuous student-athlete characterization. Otherwise, just get busy defining the pay scales and contract rates.

 

[trifectarich]

The NCAA ought to tell UNC that all of its athletic programs are suspended for one year. Have UNC demonstrate that it understands the purpose the institution exists in the first place, then we'll consider a possible reinstatement.

 

[Jake_Taylor]

This one's got to go No. 3 after Penn State and Baylor, but ahead of SMU in the all-time NCAA scandal rankings.

 

[Stoney]

This one's got to go No. 3 after Penn State and Baylor, but ahead of SMU in the all-time NCAA scandal rankings.

But Penn State was not an NCAA cheating scandal, it belongs in a different category.

And the details that made Baylor so hideous were also not really about the rules violations, but rather the lengths a coach would go to cover them up. The actual rulebreaking/cheating in the Baylor case was kid stuff compared to this UNC thing where you've got an 18 YEAR scheme (during which three national titles were tainted) that involved over a thousand of athletes and the direct participation of all these university employees and officials.

 

[Jake_Taylor]

This one's got to go No. 3 after Penn State and Baylor, but ahead of SMU in the all-time NCAA scandal rankings.

But Penn State was not an NCAA cheating scandal, it belongs in a different category.

And the details that made Baylor so hideous were also not really about cheating/rulebreaking, but rather the lengths a coach would go to cover them up. The actual rulebreaking/cheating in the Baylor case was kid stuff compared to this UNC thing where you've got an 18 YEAR scheme (during which three national titles were tainted) that involved over a thousand of athletes and the direct participation of all these university employees and officials.

Totally agree. I intentionally left the word cheating out of it. As far as cheating goes, this is the worst. Who really gives a shirt if Dickerson got a Trans Am? Both UNC and SMU thumbed their noses at the NCAA, I can't think of another time an entire university was discredited like this.

The similarity to Penn State is that a coach with great, perhaps unmatched, power and influence had at least an idea what was going on and could have changed it, but decided to ignore it because he didn't want to acknowledge a black mark against the "Carolina Way."

 

[Armchair_QB]

This one's got to go No. 3 after Penn State and Baylor, but ahead of SMU in the all-time NCAA scandal rankings.

But Penn State was not an NCAA cheating scandal, it belongs in a different category.

And the details that made Baylor so hideous were also not really about cheating/rulebreaking, but rather the lengths a coach would go to cover them up. The actual rulebreaking/cheating in the Baylor case was kid stuff compared to this UNC thing where you've got an 18 YEAR scheme (during which three national titles were tainted) that involved over a thousand of athletes and the direct participation of all these university employees and officials.

Totally agree. I intentionally left the word cheating out of it. As far as cheating goes, this is the worst. Who really gives a shirt if Dickerson got a Trans Am? Both UNC and SMU thumbed their noses at the NCAA, I can't think of another time an entire university was discredited like this.

The similarity to Penn State is that a coach with great, perhaps unmatched, power and influence had at least an idea what was going on and could have changed it, but decided to ignore it because he didn't want to acknowledge a black mark against the "Carolina Way."

SMU was guilty of a lot of things but it was Texas A&M who gave him the car.

 

[heyabbott]

The NCAA ought to tell UNC that all of its athletic programs are suspended for one year. Have UNC demonstrate that it understands the purpose the institution exists in the first place, then we'll consider a possible reinstatement.

too rational

This was institutional and historical, the University needs to be punished, not the students or athletes. Kids come to schools like UNC for multiple reasons and sports is part of that community. Don't punish the children for the sins of their ancestors
The University should be denied NCAA/ACC revenue for X number of years. No TV revenue, no cable revenue, all gate money and concession money is to go tot he general fund, not the academic budget. All money held back from sports should go into the budgets of the academic programs.

 

[Big Circus]

A familiar name weighs in and, as usual, gets right to the heart of the matter:

http://grantland.com/the-triangle/the-tar-heels-state-academic-scandal-big-money-no-surprises/

And another good piece from the president of Macalester College:

http://taxprof.typepad.com/taxprof_blog/2014/10/president-of-macalester-college-.html

I continue to be amazed that so many higher-ups let this happen. I can understand a professor or two cutting some jocks a break in a particular class, but to completely invent fake classes requires so many administrators to put their professional reputations on the line. And the fact that it went on for two decades indicates that there are a lot of people who knew about it, and let it happen.

If you're looking at grad school applications and you see a bachelor's from UNC, how sure are you that you can trust the candidate's GPA?

 

[Boom_70]

A familiar name weighs in and, as usual, gets right to the heart of the matter:

http://grantland.com/the-triangle/the-tar-heels-state-academic-scandal-big-money-no-surprises/

And another good piece from the president of Macalester College:

http://taxprof.typepad.com/taxprof_blog/2014/10/president-of-macalester-college-.html

I continue to be amazed that so many higher-ups let this happen. I can understand a professor or two cutting some jocks a break in a particular class, but to completely invent fake classes requires so many administrators to put their professional reputations on the line. And the fact that it went on for two decades indicates that there are a lot of people who knew about it, and let it happen.

If you're looking at grad school applications and you see a bachelor's from UNC, how sure are you that you can trust the candidate's GPA?

Good take by the familiar name. Loved the quote from John Wayne character in "Trouble Along The Way".

Would have liked it even more if he has quoted the great Professor Wagstaff of Huxley College: "And I say to you gentlemen that this college is a failure. The trouble is we're neglecting football for education."

 

[Neutral Corner]

"Did Wainstein Report Whitewash High-Level Culprits In UNC Cheating Scandal?"

http://www.forbes.com/sites/jamesmarshallcrotty/2014/10/23/did-wainstein-report-whitewash-high-level-culprits-in-unc-grade-scandal/

"Rather than the Wainstein report being the final word on UNC academic fraud — a result that the school's beleaguered Chancellor, Carol Folt, would surely welcome — it, instead, should be the starting point for a merciless third-party review. Such an investigation would hopefully not sugar-coat its findings under the Pablum that infects the Wainstein report, which white-washes the "higher levels of the University" on the grounds that they had "insufficient appreciation of the scale of the problem."

Here's a possible alternate narrative: UNC did not want to know the scale of the problem because there was too much money at stake from its hugely profitable sports programs. Moreover, a deeper dive might reveal Paterno-esque culpability by the school's sacrosanct coaching legends. Such a revelation would not only eviscerate UNC's brand value in the eyes of donors and recruits, but it might also net Penn-State-level sanctions, including the voiding of UNC's men's national championships from 1993, 2005 and 2009.

I do not know if UNC had input into the wording of the Wainstein report. Moreover, I do not know what UNC paid Mr. Wainstein, Edelson PR — whom UNC archrival Duke also deployed during its lacrosse team rape scandal — or Professor Nyang'oro (whom, logic suggests, must have received something extra for the 300 independent study courses he "taught" every year).

What I do know is that a truly independent inquiry would reveal the unvarnished truth, right down to naming all the "students" who benefited from what Gerald Gurney, president of the Drake Group — which seeks to protect higher education "from the corrosive aspects of commercialized college sports" — dubbed "the largest and most nefarious scandal in the history of NCAA enforcement."

 

[FileNotFound]

Remind me again how a college "education" is sufficient payment for a top-level college athlete's services.

 

[Baron Scicluna]

Remind me again how a college "education" is sufficient payment for a top-level college athlete's services.

It doesn't matter if they actually get an education as long as they get a college experience --- John Thompson

And even nowadays, with all the hours they put in, they don't even get that.