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Budget talks: This is getting nasty

Discussion in 'Sports and News' started by printdust, Jul 13, 2011.

  1. Ben_Hecht

    Ben_Hecht Active Member

    They have long memories of being exposed as the Emperors Who Wear No F'n Clothes, three years ago . . . they are and remain pathetic.
     
  2. NoOneLikesUs

    NoOneLikesUs Active Member

    Approaching full on crash momentum.
     
  3. Azrael

    Azrael Well-Known Member

    Down 528 points at the moment. Great job, American Tea Party!

    U-S-A! U-S-A! U-S-A!
     
  4. The Big Ragu

    The Big Ragu Moderator Staff Member

    The S&P downgrade has nothing to do with what is going on with the world's equity markets right now.

    Europe's debt problems, and the visible signs of a double dip recession, are what we are seeing today.
     
  5. NoOneLikesUs

    NoOneLikesUs Active Member

    Some fears about Bank of America too?
     
  6. The Big Ragu

    The Big Ragu Moderator Staff Member

    Bank of America isn't leading a broad-based sell off, or anything.

    But out of the U.S. banks, it is the most precarious. We are REALLY close to seeing some European banks fail. And BofA supposedly has the most exposure out of the U.S. banks (even though it might be relatively low, there is still going to be a chain reaction).

    Add in the fact (probably even more significant) that it is getting permanently flogged for buying Countrywide (horrible, horrible purchase), and it isn't going to go away and now is the subject of another lawsuit, and BofA is probably looking at losses that may put it in some jeopardy.

    I actually believe they don't need to raise capital right now -- which they just said (always scary when they have to actually say that). They still own Merrill Lynch. If they need to raise capital in a pinch, it is the perfect asset for them to spin off.
     
  7. Inky_Wretch

    Inky_Wretch Well-Known Member

    Does it matter? Both sides are so entrenched these days that compromise is impossible. And something like that would require bipartisan support.
     
  8. LongTimeListener

    LongTimeListener Well-Known Member

    But the S&P downgrade is another link in the chain of the deal that "solved" the debt ceiling crisis. So isn't it fair to say that while the market isn't issuing a straight referendum on the deal, the market also sees it as bad for the economy as a whole?
     
  9. doctorquant

    doctorquant Well-Known Member

    No, I don't think that's a valid way of looking at it. The market sees the economy as a whole as greviously troubled. Whence comes this trouble is, to put it mildly, a matter of some dispute. Yet the flocking of investors to the U.S.'s debt suggests the downgrade is something of a non-event.
     
  10. Inky_Wretch

    Inky_Wretch Well-Known Member

    Could you expound on that a bit? Are people moving out of stocks and into bonds in large numbers?
     
  11. The Big Ragu

    The Big Ragu Moderator Staff Member

    Equities theoretically trade on earnings. If the economy has ground to a halt, earnings are going to suffer.

    If you want to look at U.S. Policy and what has contributed, you all are starting in the wrong place, in my opinion. Our equity markets were propped up for about a year by the Federal Reserve's QE2 program, which created a false sort of prosperity (while creating inflation). Since QE2 ended, through now, markets are trading back down to the levels prior to fed intervention. I think the equity markets will figure this out and price stocks at a realistic level now, that doesn't inflate prices due to our central bank tossing money out there to falsely prop up prices. If they stay away finally, stock prices will simply reflect a bad economy in which earnings are likely to suffer.
     
  12. LongTimeListener

    LongTimeListener Well-Known Member

    My point, though -- and the point made by the Paul Krugmans of the world -- is that the debt ceiling deal is going to severely limit the government's ability to keep the economy moving at all, as happened in 1937. The plunge of American stocks would seem to reflect this lack of confidence, a belief that the cycle of consumer spending and job creation and more consumer spending is not going to happen.
     
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