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Budget talks: This is getting nasty

Discussion in 'Sports and News' started by printdust, Jul 13, 2011.

Page 71 of 214
  1. LongTimeListener

    LongTimeListener Well-Known Member

    LongTimeListener, Jul 26, 2011
    #841
  2. DanOregon

    DanOregon Well-Known Member

    Seems pretty simple - Dems put together a plan they can swallow - the Repubs put together a plan they can swallow - then DOUBLE everything, the cuts and revenue increases and we have a plan that will actually be worth the trouble.
     
    DanOregon, Jul 26, 2011
    #842
  3. YankeeFan

    YankeeFan Well-Known Member

    You realize there will be no "revenue increases", right?
     
    YankeeFan, Jul 26, 2011
    #843
  4. Magic In The Night

    Magic In The Night Active Member

    I'm not trying to score political points at all. I just want people who SAY THEY believe in the tea party philosophy to see where the fruits of their no-tax society gets them. And because I don't believe in that philosophy and am happy to pay my taxes to help people less fortunate than myself, and because that philosophy doesn't apparently play anymore in America, I might have to go somewhere that it does. That's what I'm saying. Apparently, the majority of Americans (based on the last election) and many on this board, believe we should not raise any taxes on millionaires and billionaires, and instead, cut Social Security and Medicare. Because I don't believe that, and am having little impact convincing others, it may be necessary for me to go somewhere more in tune with my views.
     
    Magic In The Night, Jul 26, 2011
    #844
  5. LongTimeListener

    LongTimeListener Well-Known Member

    One of my favorite entries ever on the Stuff White People Like blog: "Threatening To Move To Canada."

    http://stuffwhitepeoplelike.com/2008/02/24/75-threatening-to-move-to-canada/

    Have a Moosehead for me, eh.
     
    LongTimeListener, Jul 26, 2011
    #845
  6. Magic In The Night

    Magic In The Night Active Member

    Didn't say I was going to Canada. I said I might have to go somewhere more in tune with my views.
     
    Magic In The Night, Jul 26, 2011
    #846
  7. LongTimeListener

    LongTimeListener Well-Known Member

    Good Lord. Putting the family making $50,000 and the family making $500,000 in the same boat. Sure, that's fair, saying one group should live on $35,000 and one should live on $350,000 and they're both making the same "sacrifice." We've done that for 30 years and look where it has us.

    Playing along with that crap, however, you should consider that because of the lower capital gains tax and the many deductions that are used vastly more by the rich -- mortgage interest and 401K/IRA being the prime examples -- their tax rates are in effect lower.
     
    LongTimeListener, Jul 26, 2011
    #847
  8. The Big Ragu

    The Big Ragu Moderator Staff Member

    Magic, Half of Americans pay no income tax. And listening to the president last night, the new math is that anyone making more than $250,000 is a billionaire or a millionaire. We can certainly afford trillions of dollars of government, if that is what people want. We have it already. Philosophically, I will argue about what we get for it. It's a boondoggle. But if that's what you want, we already have it. We just don't pay for it.

    We'd have to increase the tax base, for us to actually pay for it, which means that the majority of people on here who don't pay anything, or don't pay much, will need to see their already meager incomes eroded to realistically have the massive government that is engulfing us. Nobody is selling that plan, because it would be political suicide. But that is fiscal reality.

    If that's what we all decide we want as society, that's fine. It's a stupid decision, in my opinion, but you don't agree.

    But then let's talk about it honestly. There are not $1.5 trillion (what seems to have become our annual deficit the last three years) worth of corporate jet taxes out there just waiting to be collected to balance our budget the way the president makes it sound. This pipe dream that the 10 percent of our population that already pays 75 percent of our taxes just needs to give up a little more in order for us to have these wonderful entitlement programs in which everyone gets something for nothing is not realistic -- or particularly fair, actually. The fact that they keep selling that bill of goods is why we run huge deficits, because they can't also sell the reality that we need to expand our tax base (i.e. more people have to pay, not just this amorphous "rich"). We are on our third year of trillion and half dollar deficits. What exactly is the "fair share" for the people who already pay the vast majority of our taxes? And what about the reality that means you, me and everyone else forking over more to make our $3 to $4 trillion government work without running huge deficits.

    Today, 70 percent of our population takes more in Federal handouts than they pay in. The reason spending cuts are so hard is that people who don't pay for benefits don't want them cut. I believe every single person should be taxed, just so they know that the entitlement programs cost something. I think there would be far less support for them if that was the case, and it would be the first step toward dismantling the mess that has built over decades. But even if I was wrong about that--that support would erode when entitlements hit people in their pocketbooks--at least we wouldn't be adding a trillion and a half dollars of debt every year.
     
    The Big Ragu, Jul 26, 2011
    #848
  9. LongTimeListener

    LongTimeListener Well-Known Member

    You can genuflect every night to the picture of Milton Friedman on your nightstand, but your theory still doesn't work. There is nothing wrong with rolling taxes back to where they were 11 years ago, which would still make this the second-lowest tax rate ever. Also, the top 10 percent might pay that half, but what do they earn? Any numbers you put up are inherently inaccurate because the IRS cannot properly gauge business and investment income thanks to, yep, tax shelters and other maneuvering. So those books are again cooked in favor of the wealthy.

    And just as a philosophical note, we have reached a point where what hurts the working class by definition helps the rich. When Cisco announces 10,000 layoffs and its stock surges 3 percent, who gets the benefit? Who gets the shaft?

    The top 300,000 Americans make more money than the bottom 150 million. There is no reason whatsoever to believe a percentage basis is a fair or healthy comparison.
     
    LongTimeListener, Jul 26, 2011
    #849
  10. YankeeFan

    YankeeFan Well-Known Member

    Can we roll back spending levels to where they were in 2000 too?
     
    YankeeFan, Jul 26, 2011
    #850
  11. LongTimeListener

    LongTimeListener Well-Known Member

    Probably not if we want to pay for continuing military operations in Iraq and Afghanistan, and the increased Medicare costs from the 2003 prescription drug overhaul (projected at the time to be $1 trillion over 10 years), and the budget hole from the tax cuts.
     
    LongTimeListener, Jul 26, 2011
    #851
  12. YankeeFan

    YankeeFan Well-Known Member

    Yeah, but aren't we getting out of those wars?

    And, I'm OK with rolling back the prescription drug program.

    While we're at it, we should probably just scrap Obama care. That would save a shit ton of money.
     
    YankeeFan, Jul 26, 2011
    #852
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