Champ Car/Indy/F1 running thread II (Montreal, Turkey, IRL to RACE Daytona?!?)

Re: Champ Car/Indy/F1 running thread II

When he ran the Infinity series at Indy last year it was on the road course and he just wiped out the competition. It's obviously tough to compare, but I think he may be better at road courses from what I've seen.

Either way, I'm guessing he has two or three years in IRL or Champ Car before a jump to F1 is a realistic possibility.

 

Re: Champ Car/Indy/F1 running thread II

A couple of weeks ago, the buzz was about CCWS/IRL unification, with an announcement on Carb Day.

We know George and Kalkhoven are on speaking terms, and George has spoken openly about desiring unification. His teams and drivers want more road races, et al. Honda doesn't want to be the sole engine supplier (and I'm not sure Ford does, either).

Carb Day came and went with no announcement, but that doesn't mean much. From a marketing perspective, it makes no sense make a major announcement in the middle of its biggest, and most visible, event, because the IRL especially doesn't want anything to upstage the Indy 500 during its news cycle.

If unification is going to happen for '07, it'll probably be hammered out soon.

Now, what tracks stay and what tracks go?

(I'll list by date, and throw in a couple of possible venues)

Late Feb/Early March Phoenix (not on either schedule, but could be brought back)
3/26 Homestead IRL -- likely to stay, but could be a casualty. (oval)
4/2 St. Pete IRL -- almost a lock to stay. Good course + both series were fighting over this one. (street)
4/9 Long Beach CC -- would be the second-biggest race on the circuit. (street)
4/22 Motegi IRL -- I wouldn't be shocked to see this one either disappear or move to a later date, possibly as part of an Asian/Eastern Hemisphere swing. This race exists as a favor to Honda, but I'd anticipate a unified series concentrate on domestic races. (oval)
5/13 Houston CC -- A likely casualty. (street)
5/21 Monterey CC -- Borderline. Could be moved into April to fill the hole (road)
5/28 Indy IRL -- duh. (oval)
6/4 Milwaukee CC/IRL (7/23) (oval) and ...
6/4 Watkins Glen IRL (road). Both tracks will remain on a unified schedule. Pre-split, Milwaukee was *always* the big post-Indy race. But Watkins Glen fits into the post-Indy NYC-based marketing blitz, so I'd expect the Glen to keep the date and the Milwaukee race keep its IRL date
6/10 Texas IRL (oval) -- the second-highest attended IRL race, and it brags about being the "second home of the IRL." Likely to stay on the schedule.
6/18 Portland CC (road) -- good track, has a long, long, long relationship with open-wheel racing. Likely to stay, though the date might be moved.
6/24 Richmond IRL (oval) -- an open-wheel short track race is a disaster in the making. I expect this one to disappear.
6/25 Cleveland CC (road) -- again, a long relationship. IRL tried to make a bid for this race several years ago. I'd expect it to stay, but these teams are going to need a break sometime in June, so either the Portland or Cleveland race might be moved to April (Portland would be more likely, due to climate) or to July, where the
7/2 Kansas IRL (oval) -- could be a casualty, though the date is attractive.
7/9 Toronto CC (street) -- An old race. Borderline. Could stay or go.
7/15 Nashville IRL (oval) -- Borderline again. I'd expect it to stay because it's the biggest race at the track.
7/23 Milwaukee IRL (oval) -- as noted above, this is the likely date for the Milwaukee race due to marketing plans.
7/23 Edmonton CC (street) -- a goner
7/30 Michigan IRL (oval) -- one of a handful of tracks that have hosted both series post-split. Also the best open-wheel track in America. A lock.
7/30 San Jose CC (street) -- another goner
8/13 Kentucky IRL (oval) -- being an independent track, Kentucky might lose its race. If it does, the track's days may be numbered. It's a shame, because it is a nice facility. Proximity to Indy, where a ton of open-wheel fans live, might save this date. I'm not banking on it, though.
8/13 Denver CC (street) -- it's a toss-up as to whether this or the Kentucky dates stay on the schedule. One probably will stay, one (or both) will go.
8/27 Infineon IRL (road) -- likely to stay, could be moved back a week to accommodate Montreal.
8/27 Montreal CC (road) -- good track, date could be moved up a week to accommodate the Infineon race
9/2 California. Former IRL track. Not on either schedule, but there was some buzz about an IRL-NASCAR doubleheader, which could become reality next year when ABC gets the rights. IRL wants California, and SoCal is an open-wheel racing hotbed (or at least it has more open-wheel fans than most parts of the country).
9/9 Chicago IRL (oval) -- too big of a market to pass up. Will stay.
9/24 Elkhart Lake CC (road) -- great course. I'd expect it to stay.
10/22 Surfer's Paradise CC (road) -- A likely casualty, unless packaged with Motegi as an Eastern Hemisphere swing
11/12 Mexico City CC (road) -- Unlikely, unless moved to earlier in the season.

So, the schedule as I might anticipate it for '07 if this happens
3/11 Phoenix (oval)
3/25 Homestead (oval)
4/2 St. Pete (street)
4/16 Long Beach (street)
4/23 Monterey (road)
4/29 Houston (street)
5/28 Indianapolis (oval)
6/3 Watkins Glen (road)
6/9 Texas (oval)
6/25 Portland (road)
7/1 Cleveland (road)
7/14 Nashville (oval)
7/22 Milwaukee (oval)
7/29 Michigan (oval)
8/12 Montreal (road)
8/19 Infineon (road)
9/1 California (oval)
9/8 Chicago (oval)
9/15 Elkhart Lake (road)
--
Races that might be run but aren't going to be much in the way of American TV draws.
10/14 Motegi (oval)
10/28 Surfer's Paradise (road)
11/11 Mexico City (road)

That schedule is 19 races (9 ovals) without the international events. 22 with all of them.

 

Re: Champ Car/Indy/F1 running thread II

Promoters are working on a street race for Phoenix starting in November '07. It still needs approval - which may not be easy - but it may be a better bet at this point than a Phoenix oval. The leadership at PIR is beyond incompetent and managed to kill the IRL race last year.

Las Vegas also has a street race in the works, which could be closer to reality.

 

Re: Champ Car/Indy/F1 running thread II

If the Champ car/IRL merger comes to pass, I hope they drop suckass Motegi and run Suzuka instead. In case I hadn't mentioned it, Motegi sucks.

And Ford only supplies the brand name these days, not the engines themselves. Kalkoven bought 100% of Cosworth Engineering from Ford a couple of years ago; when and if Ford no longer wishes to have its name on the cylinder head covers, Kalkoven and Champ Car can use the same engines with somebody else's name on the heads.

 

Re: Champ Car/Indy/F1 running thread II

I hope that after reunification CC's fascination with street courses will end. Streets produce boring racing and are very difficult to televise well. Road America, Mid Ohio, Elkhart Lake would all produce much better racing. If only Bridgehampton wasn't now a golf course. What a great circuit it was.

 

Re: Champ Car/Indy/F1 running thread II

Valid point but Toronto remains wildly popular at the box office which isn't something that can be said for most of these races.

 

Re: Champ Car/Indy/F1 running thread II

I heard ABC had more to do with that than anybody else; something about compacting the season to fit in better between college seasons.

Because, of course, the F1 race there went over so well.

Champ Car's already scheduled at Road America Sept. 24. MidOhio lost some of its charm when they put the chicane in right before the Keyhole turn.

But San Jose? Ugh. Houston? Too rough. And Kentucky Speedway is a dull cookie-cutter facility. Never seen a good race there, ever.

And Laguna Seca needs to be on the combined schedule.

 

Re: Champ Car/Indy/F1 running thread II

Cosworth also made the Chevy IRL engine a couple of years back, which might explain why Chevy dropped out of the IRL this year ...

 

Re: Champ Car/Indy/F1 running thread II

If I remember right, Chevy's last IRL engine was a Cosworth engine because the bow tie's last Ilmor engines stunk like a skunk; Ford offered Chevy a Cosworth engine for the IRL (where Ford has no investment) because they "understood the importance of having a domestic manufacturer in Indy cars."

Or something like that.

Anyway, the engine became uncompetitive in no time at all (thanks to Honda's deep pockets). And GM is losing money like a sieve loses water.

 

Re: Champ Car/Indy/F1 running thread II

Yeah, but Phoenix was very easy to cut because attendance dwindled badly, at least in part because of remarkably incompetent promotion.  (The final IRL race in Phoenix was in Danica Patrick's rookie season, two months before her big Indy debut.  Danica lives in Scottsdale.  So who do the brilliant folks at PIR plaster on the few ads they run for the race?  Tomas Scheckter.)

As for Vegas, the street course there would be absolutely nothing like the F1 course.  This one would be through actual streets downtown; F1 ran a freakin' slalom course in the Caesars parking lot.  They would be dramatically different.

 

Re: Champ Car/Indy/F1 running thread II

Those Ilmor engines were *awful* in their final year (and even before that, when their only competition was from Infiniti, the Infiniti was getting much better). Toyota complained about being underpowered last year, but they were Hornish on the final lap at Indy faster than the Chevys were at the end of Ilmor.

Right after Chevy switched from the Ilmor to the Cosworth, Hornish suddenly had equal (or better) footing and won something like 3 of the last 4 races that season. That was one of the things that helped earn him the ride in the Marlboro carton the next year.

However, Penske told GM he'd have switched to Chevy engines this year had they decided to remain in the IRL. No dice, obviously. But now that Kalkhoven owns Cosworth, I'm sure the motivation to supply a Cosworth-made engine (whether it be a Ford or a Chevy) to IRL teams is probably not as high as it was.

 

Re: Champ Car/Indy/F1 running thread II

I'm not so sure Edmonton is a goner. By all accounts, last year's race was well run and well attended and don't forget the Canadian sponsors and drivers. Don't they run it at an airport like Cleveland? It's much better than the old piece of shit Vancouver street course.

Surfer's Paradise and Elkhart Lake are expendable (Motegi should be). Elkhart Lake is a neat course, but I'd be surprised if a unified series raced in both Milwaukee and Elkhart Lake, not to mention that Elkhart Lake is VERY difficult to televise given its size. And I'd be surprised if Mexico City disappears too. It's an important market and Mexico City does have a long racing tradition.