Champ Car/Indy/F1 running thread II (Montreal, Turkey, IRL to RACE Daytona?!?)

Re: Champ Car/Indy/F1 running thread II

Open wheelers could run on it just fine, raise the ride height and soften the suspension. It would destroy much of the aerodynamic efficiency, but that only helps the racing. Lauda's crash happened before the Armco was installed all the way around, so the track is much safer now, and his crash really had nothing to do with the circuit itself. He got loose on the way in, overcorrected and got hit by another car. The real issue with it is that at over 14 miles it is hard to televise, and there needs to be a huge number of marshalls and emergency personnel. TV rights would help pay for that. It would be the open wheel race of the decade if they did it.

The circuit is still raced on today by both cars and motorcycles, so it's not inherently unsafe.

 

Re: Champ Car/Indy/F1 running thread II

At the speeds modern IRL and/or Champ Cars can reach, it most certainly is. And if you "raise the ride height and soften the suspension," you might as well run SuperModified cars instead. Touring cars do still use the old course, but they're full-size cars and much safer in a wreck than open-wheelers. And what major motorcycle series runs the old course, anyway? Regarding cars, the 24 Hours Nurburgring isn't a professional race and the 1000km Nurburging is run on the F1 course. The Nordschleife can not be made safe enough for modern open-wheel racing.

There were safety issues at the old Nurburgring long before Lauda crashed1. That's why they moved the Grand Prix to Hockenheim for one year in 1970, in the face of a driver boycott if changes weren't made. The lack of runoff space around the course, and the time it would take medical and fire crews to get to incidents on the course. Lauda actually tried to organize a boycott of the Nordschleife before the race he nearly died in.

You may now return to your race-driver fantasies in Project Gotham Racing.

1The real reason Lauda crashed --- and nearly burned to death --- was that his rear suspension failed. And his crash took place after the Armco barriers were installed.

 

Re: Champ Car/Indy/F1 running thread II

The circuit itself is not that quick, lots of second and third gear corners. Only Tiergarten is a flat out high speed blast. The place where Lauda crashed is actually very slow, and you admitted that his crash had nothing to do with the circuit itself. Now that the Armco is fully installed the circuit is not inherently unsafe, it is however very difficult. There is a difference. Watkins Glen has no runoff area, but it isn't considered unsafe. Street courses have concrete walls all the way around with no runoff, yet they're used all the time in CC.

The problem is the circuit length, making it difficult to marshall, and requires a huge number of safety personnel. It would take a lot of $$$ to do it, but the interest in the circuit is worldwide, and if promoted well it could be done.

As far as raising the ride height and softening the suspension, I'm not sure why you think that makes the cars less interesting. The F1 cars of the late 60's had no wings, yet were absolutely thrilling to watch.

 

Re: Champ Car/Indy/F1 running thread II

Much as I would love to see a major race on the Nordschlieffe, those two factors will absolutely prevent it from ever happening.

 

Re: Champ Car/Indy/F1 running thread II

Apart from all of that, it is damn near IMPOSSIBLE to televise. That alone kills it. Hell, Elkhart Lake is hard enough to televise and it's, what, a quarter of the Nordschlieffe's size?

 

Re: Champ Car/Indy/F1 running thread II

Hey, LeMans is 9 miles and they manage to somehow pull that off every year.

I'm not familiar with the history of the track and how much it may/may not be considered historic, but I'm sure enough people here and across the pond would pay $9.95 to make it fiscally doable. Shit, people pay $50 to watch 90-second fights (and don't tell me about the undercards, most of those PPV buys are from people who couldn't name two of the undercard fighters).

 

Re: Champ Car/Indy/F1 running thread II

It is the greatest track on Earth by far, and that is no exaggeration. The amazing thing is that it is open to the public, anyone that pays the fee can take his own vehicle around, with no speed limits. Needless to say the liability laws in Germany are very different from ours.

 

Re: Champ Car/Indy/F1 running thread II

Line of the year, following the NASCAR drivers' meeting at Dover ...

"Hi, my name is Jeff Gordon. I'm a big fan."
-Gordon, introducing himself to Mika Hakkinen, who is in the States 'on holiday.'

 

Re: Champ Car/Indy/F1 running thread II

Here are the venues I'd like to see in a unified series:

Triple Crown: Indy, Michigan, California
Short Ovals: Texas, Milwaukee
Permanent Road Courses: Road America, Watkins Glen, Laguna Seca, Mid-Ohio, Portland
Temporary Circuits: Long Beach, Toronto, Cleveland Airport

IMHO, these are the only 13 events that have some combination of tradition, excitement, and/or attendance to merit an open wheel race *every* year.  After that, I'd add 3-5 more venues each year on a rotating basis.  If you want a second Canadian race every year, rotate Montreal, Edmonton, and Vancouver.  If you want an international race, rotate Motegi, Surfer's Paradise, and Mexico.  Rotate the non-descript "cookie cutter" ovals.  You get the idea.

Furthermore, I don't think an American-based open wheel series can really support more than 16-18 races a year.  From an interest standpoint, the season shouldn't start before March nor end later than September.  Start it each year on Selection Sunday, which is a pretty dull sports day, make the second race on Final Four Sunday (Long Beach? Or if it's Easter, as it occasionally is, that might be a good year for Motegi), which is also pretty dull, and then just one more race in late April before Indy.  That leaves for a pretty full summer, when interest is at its highest, until you end in September (California?).

Thoughts?

 

Re: Champ Car/Indy/F1 running thread II

Sebastian won another Champ Car race today. However, Legge did pretty well, I guess that's a bigger story.

 

Re: Champ Car/Indy/F1 running thread II

Rotation is a stupid concept because local sponsors can't be expected to pony up money for an event they only get to take part in every three years. It's unworkable and economically suicidal. The Monterrey race is a huge moneymaker down in Mexico, as is the Surfers Paradise. Ain't going anywhere, either of them. And shouldn't. Montreal presents one of the best racecourses in America. You can have Toronto's course, but it's also a big moneymaker.

13 races is too short a season --- the races tend to be spaced too far apart, so casual fans don't know whether there's a race from week to week because the big gaps in the schedule cause them to lose track. Make it minimum of 20 races (closer to 25) and run it into October.


And the guy that replaced Paul Dana in the ethanol car has yet to finish a race.

 

Re: Champ Car/Indy/F1 running thread II

Great effin' driving by Cheever there.