FROM 2012 INTO 2013 POLITICS THREAD

3_Octave_Fart · Jan 27, 2013

Re: THE 2012 POLITICS THREAD

I would bet my bottom dollar he has a no-edit.
I enjoy a good number of his creations.
Can't deny his talent.

Azrael · Jan 27, 2013

Re: THE 2012 POLITICS THREAD

He's a very great artist, but his recent political writing has been a seriocomic car crash.

This piece wouldn't hold water as a post on a message board.

3_Octave_Fart · Jan 27, 2013

Re: THE 2012 POLITICS THREAD

It's not that bad.
And there has been a lot of terrible writing on this subject by any number of people.

The Founding Fathers, far from being ideologues, were not even politicians. They were an assortment of businessmen, writers, teachers, planters; men, in short, who knew something of the world, which is to say, of Human Nature. Their struggle to draft a set of rules acceptable to each other was based on the assumption that we human beings, in the mass, are no damned good—that we are biddable, easily confused, and that we may easily be motivated by a Politician, which is to say, a huckster, mounting a soapbox and inflaming our passions.
Click to expand...

That is bang-on truth.

Azrael · Jan 27, 2013

Re: THE 2012 POLITICS THREAD

That "2 million" crimes "prevented" citation has been debunked again and again.

And it's perfectly arguable that the Constitution was drawn as much to reflect the strengths of human nature as it was to accommodate its weaknesses.

Mamet's a rich cynic.

So's Donald Trump.

GeorgeFHayek · Jan 27, 2013

Re: THE 2012 POLITICS THREAD

Azrael said:

... the unsourced assertion "On a lower level of abstraction, there are more than 2 million instances a year of the armed citizen deterring or stopping armed criminals; a number four times that of all crimes involving firearms."

Click to expand...

There's this criminologist, Gary Kleck, at Florida State the writer in question is (probably) referring to. This guy's work appears to have some oomph behind it, because he's published in some heavy-hitting journals. I'm at home and don't have access to those journals here, but here's the guy's wikipedia entry:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gary_Kleck

3_Octave_Fart · Jan 27, 2013

Re: THE 2012 POLITICS THREAD

Azrael said:

Mamet's a rich cynic.

So's Donald Trump.
Click to expand...

So were the framers.
Grieving optimists, at best.
The document is full of cynicism.

Azrael · Jan 27, 2013

Re: THE 2012 POLITICS THREAD

GeorgeFHayek said:

Azrael said:

... the unsourced assertion "On a lower level of abstraction, there are more than 2 million instances a year of the armed citizen deterring or stopping armed criminals; a number four times that of all crimes involving firearms."

Click to expand...

There's this criminologist, Gary Kleck, at Florida State the writer in question is (probably) referring to. This guy's work appears to have some oomph behind it, because he's published in some heavy-hitting journals. I'm at home and don't have access to those journals here, but here's the guy's wikipedia entry:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gary_Kleck
Click to expand...

Kleck and Gertz - at least in the instance of the 1995 study Mamet's no doubt citing here - have been roundly criticized for their methodology in this case.

GeorgeFHayek · Jan 27, 2013

Re: THE 2012 POLITICS THREAD

Azrael said:

GeorgeFHayek said:

Azrael said:

... the unsourced assertion "On a lower level of abstraction, there are more than 2 million instances a year of the armed citizen deterring or stopping armed criminals; a number four times that of all crimes involving firearms."

Click to expand...

There's this criminologist, Gary Kleck, at Florida State the writer in question is (probably) referring to. This guy's work appears to have some oomph behind it, because he's published in some heavy-hitting journals. I'm at home and don't have access to those journals here, but here's the guy's wikipedia entry:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gary_Kleck
Click to expand...

Kleck and Gertz - at least in the instance of the 1995 study Mamet's no doubt citing here - have been roundly criticized for their methodology in this case.
Click to expand...

Yes, but that's always the case in the social sciences. That something has been criticized means it's potentially consequential. Only the trivial escapes serious consideration.

Here's someone who was not at all disposed to the central idea of that study:

What troubles me is the article by Gary Kleck and Marc Gertz. The reason I am troubled is that they have provided an almost clear-cut case of methodologically sound research in support of something I have theoretically opposed for years, namely, the use of a gun in defense against a criminal perpetrator. Maybe Franklin Zimring and Philip Cook can help me find fault with the Kleck and Gertz research, but for now, I have to admit my admiration for the care and caution expressed in this article and this research.
...
The methodological soundness of the current Kleck and Gertz study is clear. I cannot further debate it.
...
The Kleck and Gertz study impresses me for the caution the authors exercise and the elaborate nuances they examine methodologically. I do not like their conclusions that having a gun can be useful, but I cannot fault their methodology. They have tried earnestly to meet all objections in advance and have done exceedingly well.
Click to expand...

M.E. Wolfgang, 1995. "A tribute to a view I have opposed," The Journal of Criminal Law and Criminology, 86(1), 188-192.

Azrael · Jan 27, 2013

Re: THE 2012 POLITICS THREAD

Or not.

https://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&q=cache:OKmD8cEyoyMJ:www.stat.duke.edu/~dalene/chance/chanceweb/103.myth0.pdf+&hl=en&gl=us&pid=bl&srcid=ADGEESi2S7sahpdZqwmMGeKd7NGJGbraKPbbX_iVmx_lSRZjMshHX0k_vsrc-8qd_mNxNaoRfQBNyn6s0_TzE64pWToOJkA-iJOk8gs8cETDcFeOu3o4CeiV0iELNqkFVpE5oJj1QjWi&sig=AHIEtbTJaGxzfWY84ErupOtvID7R_KeBLw

Captain Obvious · Jan 27, 2013

Re: THE 2012 POLITICS THREAD

Is Silvio Berlusconi trying to tank his campaign? Basically tells reporters Mussolini did a lot of good, with the exception of joining the Axis. Walks it back several hours later.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/01/27/us-italy-berlusconi-mussolini-idUSBRE90Q0B620130127

dooley_womack1 · Jan 27, 2013

Re: THE 2012 POLITICS THREAD

Mussolini started out good but went too far.

Azrael · Jan 27, 2013

Re: THE 2012 POLITICS THREAD

Bunga bunga!

Log in or Sign up

FROM 2012 INTO 2013 POLITICS THREAD

3_Octave_Fart Well-Known Member

Azrael Well-Known Member

3_Octave_Fart Well-Known Member

Azrael Well-Known Member

GeorgeFHayek Member

3_Octave_Fart Well-Known Member

Azrael Well-Known Member

GeorgeFHayek Member

Azrael Well-Known Member

Captain Obvious Guest

dooley_womack1 Well-Known Member

Azrael Well-Known Member

Share This Page

Log in or Sign up

FROM 2012 INTO 2013 POLITICS THREAD

3_Octave_Fart Well-Known Member

Azrael Well-Known Member

3_Octave_Fart Well-Known Member

Azrael Well-Known Member

GeorgeFHayek Member

3_Octave_Fart Well-Known Member

Azrael Well-Known Member

GeorgeFHayek Member

Azrael Well-Known Member

Captain Obvious Guest

dooley_womack1 Well-Known Member

Azrael Well-Known Member

Share This Page

Useful Searches