Globe and Mail reports that NHL may be loaning money to Phoenix Coyotes

[JC]

Can't imagine they would really lose that much in TV revenue by losing the Phoenix market. Yeah, it's the 12th biggest market... but the NHL has a shirtty TV deal anyway, and I suspect the Phoenix ratings are pretty damn poor. I bet the league is losing a lot more by propping up the team. Glendale paid $25 million to cover losses, but the league is on the hook for the rest, and the losses topped $37 million.

Spot on

 

[Sam Mills 51]

Can't imagine they would really lose that much in TV revenue by losing the Phoenix market. Yeah, it's the 12th biggest market... but the NHL has a shirtty TV deal anyway, and I suspect the Phoenix ratings are pretty damn poor. I bet the league is losing a lot more by propping up the team. Glendale paid $25 million to cover losses, but the league is on the hook for the rest, and the losses topped $37 million.

Spot on

Yup. Glendale is worried that losing the Coyotes would be both a loss of a major professional gig for its area, and that the arena would be an even bigger financial albatross than it is now.

And it might be. I worked in an area that was faced with a similar dilemma. Lost two hockey teams in a few short years ... so either spend money to tear down large arena (considering regional population and relative affluence) or spend more money for maintenance and upkeep. Messy either way ...

With all due respect to PCLL and the diehard fans in the area, I still argue it would be more prudent to move the organization. But Gary Bettman won't admit that some of his prized non-traditional markets aren't what he envisioned.

 

[Mark2010]

It's become painfully obvious that the NHL brass (Bettman, Daly, etc.) dreads the thought of moving a team to Winnipeg or Hamilton. They've had ample opportunities time and again with potential owners tripping over themselves with millions of dollars to buy a team and move it.

For whatever reasons, and despite all doubletalk to the contrary, I just think the NHL is against having a franchise there under any conditions. OK, fine, let's get on with it. Let's find a suitable owner/city/arena in a decent US city, be it Kansas City, Houston, Milwaukee, Atlanta or wherever. But the NHL has simply been using these other offers as leverage.

 

[PCLoadLetter]

Can't imagine they would really lose that much in TV revenue by losing the Phoenix market. Yeah, it's the 12th biggest market... but the NHL has a shirtty TV deal anyway, and I suspect the Phoenix ratings are pretty damn poor. I bet the league is losing a lot more by propping up the team. Glendale paid $25 million to cover losses, but the league is on the hook for the rest, and the losses topped $37 million.

Spot on

Yup. Glendale is worried that losing the Coyotes would be both a loss of a major professional gig for its area, and that the arena would be an even bigger financial albatross than it is now.

And it might be. I worked in an area that was faced with a similar dilemma. Lost two hockey teams in a few short years ... so either spend money to tear down large arena (considering regional population and relative affluence) or spend more money for maintenance and upkeep. Messy either way ...

With all due respect to PCLL and the diehard fans in the area, I still argue it would be more prudent to move the organization. But Gary Bettman won't admit that some of his prized non-traditional markets aren't what he envisioned.

Sam, if it were strictly an arena issue I think Glendale would have cut bait already.

It's the entire restaurant/retail/entertainment/residential complex that's attached to the arena, which is next door to University of Phoenix Stadium.

Without the steady dates the Coyotes provide, all of those restaurants and bars turn into ghost towns. That's a problem in and of itself... but it also affects the football stadium, which could greatly screw up the Fiesta Bowl and the chance of future Super Bowls, which is a very big deal for the city.

 

[PCLoadLetter]

It's become painfully obvious that the NHL brass (Bettman, Daly, etc.) dreads the thought of moving a team to Winnipeg or Hamilton. They've had ample opportunities time and again with potential owners tripping over themselves with millions of dollars to buy a team and move it.

Winnipeg is a too-small market with a too-small arena. Short term it would almost certainly do better than Phoenix, but long term it sucks.

Bettman would probably be more open to Hamilton with the right ownership, but that's Toronto's market, and the Leafs would fight it like crazy.

For whatever reasons, and despite all doubletalk to the contrary, I just think the NHL is against having a franchise there under any conditions. OK, fine, let's get on with it. Let's find a suitable owner/city/arena in a decent US city, be it Kansas City, Houston, Milwaukee, Atlanta or wherever. But the NHL has simply been using these other offers as leverage.

There are no suitable cities in the US and there are no prospective owners lining up to put a team in another American city. KC, Houston and Milwaukee are all failures in waiting. Atlanta has a team that's already dying, and that team is the next target for the Winnipeg group when/if the Coyotes deal is resolved.

 

[Stitch]

Can't imagine they would really lose that much in TV revenue by losing the Phoenix market. Yeah, it's the 12th biggest market... but the NHL has a shirtty TV deal anyway, and I suspect the Phoenix ratings are pretty damn poor. I bet the league is losing a lot more by propping up the team. Glendale paid $25 million to cover losses, but the league is on the hook for the rest, and the losses topped $37 million.

Spot on

Yup. Glendale is worried that losing the Coyotes would be both a loss of a major professional gig for its area, and that the arena would be an even bigger financial albatross than it is now.

And it might be. I worked in an area that was faced with a similar dilemma. Lost two hockey teams in a few short years ... so either spend money to tear down large arena (considering regional population and relative affluence) or spend more money for maintenance and upkeep. Messy either way ...

With all due respect to PCLL and the diehard fans in the area, I still argue it would be more prudent to move the organization. But Gary Bettman won't admit that some of his prized non-traditional markets aren't what he envisioned.

Sam, if it were strictly an arena issue I think Glendale would have cut bait already.

It's the entire restaurant/retail/entertainment/residential complex that's attached to the arena, which is next door to University of Phoenix Stadium.

Without the steady dates the Coyotes provide, all of those restaurants and bars turn into ghost towns. That's a problem in and of itself... but it also affects the football stadium, which could greatly screw up the Fiesta Bowl and the chance of future Super Bowls, which is a very big deal for the city.

It's basically what does Glendale lose if Westgate closes, and the Fiesta Bowl loses BCS status down the line, plus no future Super Bowls. $50 million isn't anything to sneeze at, but paying for an empty arena plus losing associated sales tax revenue isn't pretty, either.

As for the gift clause in the Arizona Constitution, why can governments pay for stadiums, but can't buy a team?

 

[Oz]

Let's find a suitable owner/city/arena in a decent US city, be it Kansas City, Houston, Milwaukee, Atlanta or wherever. But the NHL has simply been using these other offers as leverage.

Cross KC off the list, there's no local billionaire willing to bring in a pro sports team to play at the Sprint Center. Unless AEG itself wants to buy a team to put in its arena, KC will be mentioned, but don't expect anything serious to come of it.

 

[Stitch]

Let's find a suitable owner/city/arena in a decent US city, be it Kansas City, Houston, Milwaukee, Atlanta or wherever. But the NHL has simply been using these other offers as leverage.

Cross KC off the list, there's no local billionaire willing to bring in a pro sports team to play at the Sprint Center. Unless AEG itself wants to buy a team to put in its arena, KC will be mentioned, but don't expect anything serious to come of it.

After KC, what areas are left? Portland and Houston, but Milwaukee doesn't have a suitable arena. Portland was going to be the Coyotes destination as Paul Allen was rumored to put in an offer before Steve Ellman, the developer behind the Coyotes' arena, bought the team with Gretzky's help.

 

[JC]

Jesus Christ people there are nto enough markets, the fact that Winnepeg can break even and save the league 35 mill shows that. It is a niche sport accept it, would love to be a tax payer in Glendale.

 

[Oz]

I like the thought that hockey doesn't have to be a niche sport. So hockey hasn't done great in Atlanta, Glendale and Miami. It has been a success in Raleigh, Nashville, Dallas and Tampa. And overall, it seems like the sport has grown during Bettman's Sun Belt expansion.

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/02/18/sports/hockey/18hockey.html?_r=3

"Participation throughout the United States has increased from 195,000 male and female players of all ages registered with USA Hockey in 1990-91 to 475,000 in 2009-10. Earlier this year, it registered its 100,000th player at the 8-and-younger level.

"On opening night of the N.H.L. this year, and for the first time in league history, more than 20 percent of league rosters were composed of American players, representing 25 states."

 

[Liut]

Atlanta ... supplying hockey franchises to the prairie provinces since 1980.

AJC reporting Atlanta Spirit and True North negotiating. League drafting separate schedules for next season.

 

[JR]

Elliotte Friedman on Atlanta/Winnipeg

http://www.cbc.ca/sports/blogs/elliottefriedman/2011/05/thrashers-rollercoaster-ride-hurtling-toward-winnipeg.html