Guns, the NRA, the constitution and senseless shootings

[Inky_Wretch]

Legally, almost any U.S. citizen over the age of 18 can conceal a firearm.

That's simply not true.

States can issue concealed carry permits. Each state can set its own guidelines and fee structure. Some don't allow it all. Some only charge $10 for a permit, others charge $200, require certification from a firearms instructor and an extensive background check.

But you can't legally conceal a firearm without a permit.

 

[SportBlogNow]

Legally, almost any U.S. citizen over the age of 18 can conceal a firearm.

That's simply not true.

States can issue concealed carry permits. Each state can set its own guidelines and fee structure. Some don't allow it all. Some only charge $10 for a permit, others charge $200, require certification from a firearms instructor and an extensive background check.

But you can't legally conceal a firearm without a permit.

I said you have to be registered... and that's only if you're doing it legally. But the point it that anyone with a fairly clean slate can take some gun lessons, apply for a permit, and get a gun. I know people who own a gun who shouldnt be trusted with a BB

 

[Batman]

Someone mentioned it earlier, but it bears repeating. For whatever reason, a lot of the people who want to ban/destroy/get rid of/abolish guns are the same ones who shout to the heavens about the government's constant infringement of civil rights. Ummm...one of the reasons we HAVE the right to bear arms is to keep the federal government from taking that final step into authoritarianism. A government that doesn't fear its populace is a dangerous thing.

Some other things I know about guns....
1) When people say why do we need to hunt for food, it's not just food. It's wildlife population control. And you wouldn't laugh at that statement if you've known someone who's hit a deer with their car.

2) I live in Mississippi, and late last year the state legislature amended its self-defense law. The old law said you had to retreat before defending yourself. The new law says you can defend yourself if you feel threatened.
I have no official statistics on this, but in the six months or so since the law was passed I can think of a half-dozen incidents in Jackson alone (a burglary, a couple of carjackings, things like that) where people either shot the criminal and stopped him in the act or held him at gunpoint until police arrived.
Included in that number was a case where some psycho husband tracked his wife down at a store, beat the shirt out of her and pulled her out to the parking lot -- where he proceeded to douse her in gasoline and tried to set her on fire. The only thing that stopped him was a good samaritan who pulled his gun and threatened to shoot the guy. The psycho was held until police arrived, and arrested.

3) Guns solve a very tricky combat problem -- distance. If you're not strong or don't know how to fight -- which, I would guess, is a good chunk of the population -- a mugger or burglar can easily overpower you and do you harm. It's a lot harder to do that from 10 or 20 feet away.

4) Are guns dangerous? In the wrong hands, yes.
If you own one, should you get training and take a safety course? Absolutely.
Do I own a gun? No.
If there were serious talk about repealing the second amendment, would I buy one? Bet your ass, because on a lot of levels I don't like government taking away one of the most fundamental rights our country has.
And if they came to take it, to quote Charlton Heston, "Get your paws off me, you damned dirty ape..."
No, wait...
"From my cold, dead hand."
Because if they take away that right, there's literally nothing to stop them from finding some excuse to take away the others.

 

[lono]

I just wrote this...it comes from the heart.

I don?t know where to start.

The hardest part is thinking that this actually happened. How could it happen? We sit here and read about it, write about it, and watch it on the news, but it?s difficult to actually take in the fact that a human being preemptively decided to enter a classroom building, chain the doors from the inside, and walk room to room murdering innocent students.

Why? Why would a human being do such a thing? What could possibly compel anyone to commit such a heinous act? One thing I know is this: It was not video games, it was not hip-hop, and it was not television violence. These remedial excuses discussed by the media are not only absurd, but are borderline offensive to the victims and their families. It is not an acceptable explanation to say that a human being was driven to murder 33 people because they took Grand Theft Auto a little too seriously.

No, this incident and those of similar nature are results of much larger problems in our society. God only knows what drove the young man to do what he did, but one could speculate. Americans work longer hours for lower wages than all other "civilized" countries, not to mention the shorter vacation time. This economic situation undoubtedly contributes to our high divorce rates, suicide rates, and collective alcohol problems. Coupled with our constant pursuit of perfection and our obsession with masculinity, a clearer picture begins to form.

Let us not forget how easy it is to own a gun. Legally, almost any U.S. citizen over the age of 18 can conceal a firearm. Illegally, anyone who knows where to look can find a gun if the price is right. Screw the second amendment, why is it legal for anyone to own anything designed for killing humans? Okay, fine, inside the home, I can see how owning a gun to protect your family is okay. However, this doesn?t discount that fact that it is legal for registered owners to carry a gun in public, or the fact that semi-automatic weapons are produced and sold daily.

Obviously, taken as an isolated incident it doesn?t matter why it happened, it only matters that it happened. Now, 33 people are dead, many more are injured, and hundreds of families are destroyed. Viewed on a larger spectrum, however, why it happened does matter. This isn?t the first time, and it most certainly won?t be the last. Nothing we as a society can do will change those facts, but perhaps we can curtail the frequency of these tragic incidents over time.

Exactly why this shooting occurred, we will never know. We may find out the trigger event (i.e. a bad breakup, getting picked on, etc?), but we won?t know what was going on inside that person's head as he planned to kill his fellow classmates and human beings. No matter what the exact circumstances, events like these make it clear to me that as a society we need to change.

But don?t expect that to happen. Instead, expect to hear how Snoop Dogg and 50 Cent, Grand Theft Auto and Doom, and The Matrix and The Sopranos influence people to shoot up there classrooms (Lets hear them make this argument for adults killing their co-workers. Are investment traders listening to G-Unit these days?). Expect some sensible newsmen and journalists to say or write something along the lines of what I've said. But, don?t expect change.

After all, with the hours we work and the pay we get, who has time for change?

You know, some hysterics could claim that the liberal majority set this shirt up just to make their argument for gun control.

Not only are you dumber than a ditch carp, emotionally you are a piece of fetid, decaying fecal matter for making a statement that ignorant and insensitive.

Crawl back in your hole, forktard. Go eat like a Republican.

 

[Alma]

How does a guy fresh of the boat - STUDENT VISA IN AUGUST - get two 9 mm guns?

Two guns? Sheet. Look at this.

http://www.xanga.com/wanusmaximus

Now...tell me this isn't about guns.

If that is his site, the gun porn (photos of guns, not NSFW women) is very disturbing. Those aren't Saturday Night Specials he's photographing, those are high-end firearms costing $1,000s each. I just wonder where he got the money to purchase them.

Lifted from another thread...

http://wanusmaximus.livejournal.com/

That site is not owned by the shooter. The owner has posted tonight denying he's the shooter.

Wanted to add...the name at the bottom of that email address is not the name of the person who ran that site, unless they were posting the names of a different person's admission letters on that site.

 

[Inky_Wretch]

Legally, almost any U.S. citizen over the age of 18 can conceal a firearm.

That's simply not true.

States can issue concealed carry permits. Each state can set its own guidelines and fee structure. Some don't allow it all. Some only charge $10 for a permit, others charge $200, require certification from a firearms instructor and an extensive background check.

But you can't legally conceal a firearm without a permit.

I said you have to be registered... and that's only if you're doing it legally. But the point it that anyone with a fairly clean slate can take some gun lessons, apply for a permit, and get a gun. I know people who own a gun who shouldnt be trusted with a BB

As I've said, the problem isn't law-abiding gun owners. Those people taking the time to fill out the paperwork, submitting to background checks and paying for permits don't shoot up schools or rob banks or do drive bys.

 

[writing irish]

And, writing irish: absolutely, decades of violence. That never get talked about until some a-hole goes on a shooting spree on a college campus. As the Imus stuation showed, and as this shows, we are a sadly reactive society. Nothing gets the ire going until there's a major incident; then the screaming follows. And often, dies down before change can be affected.

True enough. I haven't been on a one-man campaign to reduce violence lately. One of the things I like about the wretched shirthole of a town where I've lived for the past year or so is that random interpersonal violence is rare...it pretty much happens in the parking lots of shirtty bars around closing time. I haven't thought about the issue much because it wasn't around me.

Now, I used to live in some forked up neighborhoods in cities. Thought about getting a gun, but never did.

 

[Piotr Rasputin]

And, writing irish: absolutely, decades of violence. That never get talked about until some a-hole goes on a shooting spree on a college campus. As the Imus stuation showed, and as this shows, we are a sadly reactive society. Nothing gets the ire going until there's a major incident; then the screaming follows. And often, dies down before change can be affected.

True enough. I haven't been on a one-man campaign to reduce violence lately. One of the things I like about the wretched shirthole of a town where I've lived for the past year or so is that random interpersonal violence is rare...it pretty much happens in the parking lots of shirtty bars around closing time. I haven't thought about the issue much because it wasn't around me.

That's the thing: Americans as a whole never think about a lot of issues until they happen. Like the mother who supports the Iraq war until her son dies in it, then, "oh, NOW I'm upset about this!" There has been a lot of pretty words on this thread, and there will be a lot of pretty words across the country in the next few days.

And Virginia and other states will continue to have lax enforcement of lax gun laws.

 

[Yawn]

I just wrote this...it comes from the heart.

I don?t know where to start.

The hardest part is thinking that this actually happened. How could it happen? We sit here and read about it, write about it, and watch it on the news, but it?s difficult to actually take in the fact that a human being preemptively decided to enter a classroom building, chain the doors from the inside, and walk room to room murdering innocent students.

Why? Why would a human being do such a thing? What could possibly compel anyone to commit such a heinous act? One thing I know is this: It was not video games, it was not hip-hop, and it was not television violence. These remedial excuses discussed by the media are not only absurd, but are borderline offensive to the victims and their families. It is not an acceptable explanation to say that a human being was driven to murder 33 people because they took Grand Theft Auto a little too seriously.

No, this incident and those of similar nature are results of much larger problems in our society. God only knows what drove the young man to do what he did, but one could speculate. Americans work longer hours for lower wages than all other "civilized" countries, not to mention the shorter vacation time. This economic situation undoubtedly contributes to our high divorce rates, suicide rates, and collective alcohol problems. Coupled with our constant pursuit of perfection and our obsession with masculinity, a clearer picture begins to form.

Let us not forget how easy it is to own a gun. Legally, almost any U.S. citizen over the age of 18 can conceal a firearm. Illegally, anyone who knows where to look can find a gun if the price is right. Screw the second amendment, why is it legal for anyone to own anything designed for killing humans? Okay, fine, inside the home, I can see how owning a gun to protect your family is okay. However, this doesn?t discount that fact that it is legal for registered owners to carry a gun in public, or the fact that semi-automatic weapons are produced and sold daily.

Obviously, taken as an isolated incident it doesn?t matter why it happened, it only matters that it happened. Now, 33 people are dead, many more are injured, and hundreds of families are destroyed. Viewed on a larger spectrum, however, why it happened does matter. This isn?t the first time, and it most certainly won?t be the last. Nothing we as a society can do will change those facts, but perhaps we can curtail the frequency of these tragic incidents over time.

Exactly why this shooting occurred, we will never know. We may find out the trigger event (i.e. a bad breakup, getting picked on, etc?), but we won?t know what was going on inside that person's head as he planned to kill his fellow classmates and human beings. No matter what the exact circumstances, events like these make it clear to me that as a society we need to change.

But don?t expect that to happen. Instead, expect to hear how Snoop Dogg and 50 Cent, Grand Theft Auto and Doom, and The Matrix and The Sopranos influence people to shoot up there classrooms (Lets hear them make this argument for adults killing their co-workers. Are investment traders listening to G-Unit these days?). Expect some sensible newsmen and journalists to say or write something along the lines of what I've said. But, don?t expect change.

After all, with the hours we work and the pay we get, who has time for change?

You know, some hysterics could claim that the liberal majority set this shirt up just to make their argument for gun control.

Not only are you dumber than a ditch carp, emotionally you are a piece of fetid, decaying fecal matter for making a statement that ignorant and insensitive.

Crawl back in your hole, forktard. Go eat like a Republican.

Actually, I posted that too early. I read this slower and more completely and realizing what I did, apologize for the connection. It was a good commentary, especially toward the end. Yes, I screwed up. Hang me if you choose. Accept my apology if you can.

It does indicate a society that needs to change. In many ways. We are a self-centered society, keen to blame everything rather than look in the mirror....party on party, gun control, etc. When we realize that the problem really is sin, collectively and individually, we can begin to address exactly how and what to change. We are a fallen people. And whether or not you want to word-associate that with sin or anything religious or bash such an associate, I think the previous post has said it. We are in need of change. The opposite of sin is transformation.

 

[dooley_womack1]

The Second Amendment had nothing to do with the right to have a handgun or even the right to skeet-shoot and hunt. And anecdotal scenarios are fine and good, but if you have a handgun in your house, you are much more likely for someone in the house to be accidentally shot or the gun to be stolen than to even encounter an intruder, much less fight one off.

 

[Yawn]

Here's a thought:

Anyone point out that the start of the NRA Annual Meetings was Friday?

Conspiracy theory, anyone?

 

[Yawn]

http://www.nra.org/Article.aspx?id=8442

And

http://www.nra.org/