here's what's in store for ichiro...

[I Should Coco]

Good story, though some of the arguments have pretty big holes.

1. His OBP is good, it's just driven by hits instead of walks and a lot of statheads have a problem with that for some reason. I've seen sabers complain that a player's OBP is "hits-driven" like it's a bad thing. They're not obsessed with OBP, but walks. If Ichiro gets enough singles to make up for a lack of walks, what's the damn difference?

Ichiro is 27th on the active OBP list. Well, 26th since Manny Ramirez isn't really active anymore. Of the 25 ahead of him, ZERO are leadoff hitters.

Agree 100 percent with this.

I can't believe how many people -- even here among Seattle fans -- complain that Ichiro is "just" a singles hitter.

Ryan Theriot is "just" a singles hitter. Ichiro's had 200-plus hits for 10 straight years, and counting. Even in 2011, which is for him a down year, he's got over 100 hits as the All-Star break approaches.

Ichiro hits his way on base enough to score plenty of runs. He's just on a sorry, sorry offensive team. Anyone who blames his lack of HR power for the Mariners' offensive ineptitude is pointing at the wrong "problem."

 

[imjustagirl]

Long as he keeps doing this, I don't care if he hits his body weight.



(ANY NEWCOMERS TO THE ICHIRO APPRECIATION SOCIETY? EH, LADIES OR OTHER APPRECIATORS OF MEN??)

 

[Lieslntx]

Long as he keeps doing this, I don't care if he hits his body weight.



(ANY NEWCOMERS TO THE ICHIRO APPRECIATION SOCIETY? EH, LADIES OR OTHER APPRECIATORS OF MEN??)

I became a fan the FIRST time you posted this video.

 

[sgreenwell]

I'm one of those seamheads (on most things, anyway), and I'd be shocked if Ichiro isn't a first of second ballot hall of fame guy. Yeah, hitting a ton of singles *generally* isn't incredibly valuable, but he does it at a historic rate. Plus, he has a ton of storyline aspects going for him - first superstar player of Japanese descent in the majors, no?

Would he have been even more valuable if they had put him in center? Sure - so would Rickey Henderson. It doesn't negate that he was/is still pretty damn valuable as a right fielder.

In arguing about JD Drew's value with some people the other day, I think RF has been somewhat overrated as a hitting position in recent years. Ichiro's competition is Bobby Abreu, Drew... Gary Sheffield? Or is he a DH? Adam Dunn went from OF to 1B and DH. Bonds played left. Josh Hamilton plays center more, I think, and probably won't play nearly as many years. I'm positive I'm forgetting some guys at this late hour, but the talent crop in the corners has seemed down to me in recent years.

 

[Mizzougrad96]

Ichiro is easily a first ballot Hall-of-Famer.

 

[shockey]

okay, finally my .02 (and my bad in thinking ichiro is close to joining 3K fraternity -- he's 'only' at 2,345, and will be 38 in october, so it's unlikely) -- he's a first ballot hof'er. and he's largely been a one-man team with a putrid supporting cast, obviously hurting his 'production (runs/rbi) numbers. but so much of the arguments made are nitpicky beyond belief.

the overall point on his skills as a complete superstar still has me shaking my head in disbelief. this idea that if was was truly such a marvelous defensive player he would/should have been a shortstop boggles my mind. he's arguably the best pure right-fielder i've seen since clemente. i don't remember anyone ever claiming roberto was a fraud or over-hyped defensive player. mlb is not little league baseball, where you hide your worst players figuring they can do the least damage there. it's a valued position in which many 'baseball people' believe should be played by your outfielder with the best arm, 'cause they can have such an impact dissuading baserunners from taking the extra base or by throwing 'em out outright.


unless the center fielder on your team is putrid defensively, right field is precisely the outfield spot which puts an outfielder with ichiro's skill-set to be playing. the points made by the author are indeed compelling, but also leads me to wonder how many acknowledged greats of the past would be redefined if their 'numbers' received the kind of examination players of today receive.

all in all, it seems to me that analyses like these concentrate more on what the players CANNOT/DO NOT do while minimizing what it is that they do that makes them considered great. what exactly was the conclusion? that ichiro is 'great' but just not 'AS GREAT' as you might think? that your foolish for letting ichiro's skills leave you saying, 'WOW?'

what a great life-view the author has.

 

[Mizzougrad96]

Ichiro was 27 when he made his US debut, so 3,000 hits was likely never going to be an option. I think he's the best pure hitter I've ever seen. At least early in his career, he seemed like he was impossible to strike out, that he could just sit there and foul off pitch after pitch until he found the one he liked. Boggs was like that too.

Ichiro has got to be among the best baserunners and fielders of the last decade as well.

 

[shockey]

I think he's the best pure hitter I've ever seen. At least early in his career, he seemed like he was impossible to strike out, that he could just sit there and foul off pitch after pitch until he found the one he liked. Boggs was like that too.

Ichiro has got to be among the best baserunners and fielders of the last decade as well.

b-b-but he doesn't hit home runs! or steal enough bases! or walk enough! or play shortstop! or even center field! this is insanity, what you say!

probably couldn't agree more, mizzoo. sheesh, you'd think he was matty alou, a singles hitter who REALLY did nothing else at all anything even remotely close to well.

 

[Mizzougrad96]

Call me crazy, but I think he's one of the five best players I've seen during my lifetime. If not top five, definitely top 10.

 

[micropolitan guy]

And singles are always more valuable than walks. Guys don't score from third or second on a two-out walk. Guys don't go from first to third on walks. 220 singles and 30 walks is more productive than 170 singles and 80 walks, even if the OBP is the same.

He scored 100 or more runa every season for his first eight years in MLB, before the Mariners forgot how to hit. As has been said, blame his lack of run scoring on the players behind him, not him.

And he'll have 2450-plus hits after this year. Even if he's slipped a bit this year (he has heated up lately, as the weather has improved in the PNW), I think he easily has three more years of 200-plus hits left in him and there's no reason he can't play until 42 or 43 and have a couple more years of 170-plus hits.

There's no one in the M's farm system who is better at the moment and a threat to take his job.

I'd love to see him play in Boston or Philadelphia or with a team that can actually hit.

 

[Mizzougrad96]

Has Ichiro ever been on the DL? That's a pretty amazing feat these days as well...

 

[micropolitan guy]

He played in 146 games in 2009. Otherwise, 161 or 162 every year since 2004 or so. Had a couple of 157s and 158s from 2001-04.