Horrendous Indy car crash in Vegas -- Update: RIP Dan Wheldon

[Mystery Meat II]

westcoastvol, it will be interesting to see if IndyCar can survive. Even before today, the pendulum was swinging back toward road/street courses, which are fun local shows but worthless for TV ratings, which you gotta have to get sponsor cash. As Nascar has shown, the formula is oval racing. Period. And truth be told, IndyCar IS exhilarating to watch on the banked ovals. But oval-track promoters can't make money off it because fans haven't been going, and when the Bernard-regime IndyCar tries run the show themselves and gimmicks it up ... well, they're 0 for 1.

IndyCar will survive for the same reason it survived in the early years: the Indy 500.
Also, recall the ratings spike NASCAR had post-Dale Earnhardt Sr.: people who weren't fans previously wanted to see what this whole NASCAR thing was about because the news of Earnhardt's death was everywhere. Big difference is the 2001 Daytona 500 started the season and there was a race the following week; Wheldon's death came in the finale of a series that doesn't race again for about six months.

Except Dan Wheldon's death will have nowhere near the resonance with casual fans as Earnhardt's. That, combined with Danica moving to NASCAR full-time, leaves IndyCar in a really bad place. Yeah, so long as there's an Indy 500, there will be an open-wheel circuit for it to prop up. But as it is, they've had ID problems with the general public, whose knowledge of their drivers is limited to:

* Danica the hot GoDaddy girl
* Ashley Judd's husband
* some Brazilians
* some Andrettis, right?
* isn't there still a A.J. Foyt hanging around?
* wait does Tony Stewart still drive part-time for them?
* the guy who just died.

They might hang around, but I don't see much spike in interest at all.

 

[Mystery Meat II]

Not that it's relevant in any way really, but can one of you guys offer me some perspective of how big Wheldon was in the sport? Is this like, say, Aaron Rodgers dying? Someone young and extremely talented who has already accomplished a ton and expected to accomplish a lot more? Or is this like Sidney Crosby dying? He's one of the few IndyCar drivers I could name, but I'm just curious what he meant to the sport. Obviously seemed like a very nice guy from what I'm reading.

Big as in a two-time winner of the biggest race in the series, the Indianapolis 500-Mile Race, and one of the Big Four in world racing (along with Daytona 500, Grand Prix of Monaco and the 24 Hours of LeMans).

Ok, but you need to understand that means very little to me. I'm hoping someone can help me put this into perspective (and I'm asking this respectfully) by comparing to a sport I might follow. Is this like losing Lionel Messi? Is it like LeBron James died? He was obviously a huge deal in the sport. Was he the best driver in the entire thing? Was he one of the three or four best? This obviously is different than losing Dale Earnhardt, which people said was like Michael Jordan. He was only 33. I imagine he had plenty of brilliant racing ahead of him. That's why I offered up Aaron Rodgers. Bad comparison? Good?

Best I can come up with is an older star for the MLS, presuming IRL:MLS::F1:English Premier League or La Liga. Pretty good player in a second-tier league but nowhere near a Messi or a Wayne Rooney or a Cristiano Ronaldo as far as global presence.

 

[Layman]

Not that it's relevant in any way really, but can one of you guys offer me some perspective of how big Wheldon was in the sport? Is this like, say, Aaron Rodgers dying? Someone young and extremely talented who has already accomplished a ton and expected to accomplish a lot more? Or is this like Sidney Crosby dying? He's one of the few IndyCar drivers I could name, but I'm just curious what he meant to the sport. Obviously seemed like a very nice guy from what I'm reading.

Big as in a two-time winner of the biggest race in the series, the Indianapolis 500-Mile Race, and one of the Big Four in world racing (along with Daytona 500, Grand Prix of Monaco and the 24 Hours of LeMans).

Ok, but you need to understand that means very little to me. I'm hoping someone can help me put this into perspective (and I'm asking this respectfully) by comparing to a sport I might follow. Is this like losing Lionel Messi? Is it like LeBron James died? He was obviously a huge deal in the sport. Was he the best driver in the entire thing? Was he one of the three or four best? This obviously is different than losing Dale Earnhardt, which people said was like Michael Jordan. He was only 33. I imagine he had plenty of brilliant racing ahead of him. That's why I offered up Aaron Rodgers. Bad comparison? Good?

It's hard to compare. Since Wheldon didn't have a full-time ride this year, but had one as recently as last year, think of a veteran and good, but not all-time great QB a bit past his prime that signs up as a mid-season pick-up in the NFL, wins a must-win playoff game, and who had glory in his past.

I dunno, maybe Randall Cunningham with the Vikings in '98?

Bubbler, why does a two-time Indy winner not have a full-time ride? I apologize in advance for my ignorance.

Maybe Bubbler will have a different take, but in my mind there were two reasons. First, Wheldon hadn't been able to bring any (or, enough) sponsorship dollars...which can be a pretty big deal in open wheel. Second, he wasn't a particularly good road course driver. The series is split between both disciplines & underfunded teams tend to hire specialists for each type of track. Or, in the case of Sarah Fisher's team, for example, only run one type of track.

 

[TigerVols]

IndyCar does have a glimmer of hope next season...the CAR part of its name. IIRC, there are new engine and body combos coming, which should help to make it far less homogeneous than NASCAR is at the moment.

 

[wicked]

IndyCar will survive for the same reason it survived in the early years: the Indy 500.
Also, recall the ratings spike NASCAR had post-Dale Earnhardt Sr.: people who weren't fans previously wanted to see what this whole NASCAR thing was about because the news of Earnhardt's death was everywhere. Big difference is the 2001 Daytona 500 started the season and there was a race the following week; Wheldon's death came in the finale of a series that doesn't race again for about six months.

A lot of other factors went into the post-Earnhardt ratings spike, most importantly that Fox was promoting the shirt out of the series on its other properties, namely MLB and the NFL, before Earnhardt died. And the whole Junior-and-Kevin-Harvick-taking-the-mantle story line. Nothing remotely close to that here.

 

[Mystery Meat II]

IndyCar does have a glimmer of hope next season...the CAR part of its name. IIRC, there are new engine and body combos coming, which should help to make it far less homogeneous than NASCAR is at the moment.

Perhaps, but that's a long-term investment in terms of building interest. It'll make the hardcore fans more attuned, but "we have new cars!" isn't enough to bring in new viewers.

 

[Chef2]

Didn't see this anywhere.

How incredibly freaking sad.

http://www.thepostgame.com/blog/dish/201110/dan-wheldons-romantic-act-hours-death

 

[westcoastvol]

Bubbler, why does a two-time Indy winner not have a full-time ride? I apologize in advance for my ignorance.

$$$, specifically, the bang for the buck/ROI (return on investment) in a very tight economy.

Look no further than NASCAR-Matt Kenseth, one of the three top dogs for the Sprint Cup title right now, does not have full sponsorship for next year (IIRC, it's about $20 million to be the flagship sponsor of a car). That's 36 races, I think. A former champion and perennial fixture in the top echelon of the chase, and he may...may have sponsorship for maybe 12 races. Maybe.

Red Bull is walking away from owning/fielding two teams: Kasey Kahne and Brian Vickers. I guess in their minds, they're not getting the bang for the buck the way they are with their soccer team in NJ and F1 sponsor/ownership.

The point I'm getting to is this:
If a champion in NASCAR driving for a championship level team can't find sponsors to hit that $20mm (hypothetical) mark in a sport that at its very least is televised on TNT 36x/week, it's prolly 20 times harder to find sponsors willing to drop $5mm to be the presenting sponsor for a team in a sport that doesn't draw as well as NASCAR in attendance and aside from the Indy 500 and maybe the Milwaukee Mile, its races are mostly shown on Versus network, where NHL withered on the vine until they went back to ESPN.

If I'm an American brand/sponsor, and it costs about $5mm-ish to sponsor on a car, and my logos will be seen by more people (barely) on tv in Europe on SkyNet than it will in the US, that's not a great investment on my part. I can spend my marketing dollars better elsewhere.

To me, that's a big part of why Wheldon mainly test-drove cars this season. No $ = no team to drive for. Huge shame, especially since he was a nice, charismatic guy, but didn't have the brand name/charismatic American appeal (or tits) that Danica Patrick has. The godaddy.com deal, unfortunately, was too little too late.

 

[Bubbler]

Not that it's relevant in any way really, but can one of you guys offer me some perspective of how big Wheldon was in the sport? Is this like, say, Aaron Rodgers dying? Someone young and extremely talented who has already accomplished a ton and expected to accomplish a lot more? Or is this like Sidney Crosby dying? He's one of the few IndyCar drivers I could name, but I'm just curious what he meant to the sport. Obviously seemed like a very nice guy from what I'm reading.

Big as in a two-time winner of the biggest race in the series, the Indianapolis 500-Mile Race, and one of the Big Four in world racing (along with Daytona 500, Grand Prix of Monaco and the 24 Hours of LeMans).

Ok, but you need to understand that means very little to me. I'm hoping someone can help me put this into perspective (and I'm asking this respectfully) by comparing to a sport I might follow. Is this like losing Lionel Messi? Is it like LeBron James died? He was obviously a huge deal in the sport. Was he the best driver in the entire thing? Was he one of the three or four best? This obviously is different than losing Dale Earnhardt, which people said was like Michael Jordan. He was only 33. I imagine he had plenty of brilliant racing ahead of him. That's why I offered up Aaron Rodgers. Bad comparison? Good?

It's hard to compare. Since Wheldon didn't have a full-time ride this year, but had one as recently as last year, think of a veteran and good, but not all-time great QB a bit past his prime that signs up as a mid-season pick-up in the NFL, wins a must-win playoff game, and who had glory in his past.

I dunno, maybe Randall Cunningham with the Vikings in '98?

Bubbler, why does a two-time Indy winner not have a full-time ride? I apologize in advance for my ignorance.

Maybe Bubbler will have a different take, but in my mind there were two reasons. First, Wheldon hadn't been able to bring any (or, enough) sponsorship dollars...which can be a pretty big deal in open wheel. Second, he wasn't a particularly good road course driver. The series is split between both disciplines & underfunded teams tend to hire specialists for each type of track. Or, in the case of Sarah Fisher's team, for example, only run one type of track.

Can't argue with any of that, although he was lined up to take over Danica Patrick's seat next season.

 

[Bubbler]

westcoastvol, it will be interesting to see if IndyCar can survive. Even before today, the pendulum was swinging back toward road/street courses, which are fun local shows but worthless for TV ratings, which you gotta have to get sponsor cash. As Nascar has shown, the formula is oval racing. Period. And truth be told, IndyCar IS exhilarating to watch on the banked ovals. But oval-track promoters can't make money off it because fans haven't been going, and when the Bernard-regime IndyCar tries run the show themselves and gimmicks it up ... well, they're 0 for 1.

IndyCar will survive for the same reason it survived in the early years: the Indy 500.
Also, recall the ratings spike NASCAR had post-Dale Earnhardt Sr.: people who weren't fans previously wanted to see what this whole NASCAR thing was about because the news of Earnhardt's death was everywhere. Big difference is the 2001 Daytona 500 started the season and there was a race the following week; Wheldon's death came in the finale of a series that doesn't race again for about six months.

Except Dan Wheldon's death will have nowhere near the resonance with casual fans as Earnhardt's. That, combined with Danica moving to NASCAR full-time, leaves IndyCar in a really bad place. Yeah, so long as there's an Indy 500, there will be an open-wheel circuit for it to prop up. But as it is, they've had ID problems with the general public, whose knowledge of their drivers is limited to:

* Danica the hot GoDaddy girl
* Ashley Judd's husband
* some Brazilians
* some Andrettis, right?
* isn't there still a A.J. Foyt hanging around?
* wait does Tony Stewart still drive part-time for them?
* the guy who just died.

They might hang around, but I don't see much spike in interest at all.

I agree about the spike in interest, that won't happen because of a fatality, but in many ways, IndyCar is more healthy now than it was a few years ago. Full disclosure: I'm an open-wheel fan, but I'm Formula One-first, IndyCar-second.

First off, Danica's loss is not by any means that big of a deal. This isn't 2005 anymore, back then, it would be a massive blow. Now? Danica's been woodwork for years in terms of race performance and her effect on attendance is negligible after attendance got a bump in the mid 2000s.

Yes, she gets endorsements, but how has that helped anyone other than Danica? It doesn't move the needle on TV ratings at all. The truth is that Danica needs this move to NASCAR. She needs to do something to revitalize her career before her endorsements dry up in Anna Kournikova-style fashion. At some point, 8th place finishes won't cut it even for the GoDaddy.com's of the world.

And not to get too wonky, but TigerVols is right about the new cars. Not only will they provide more variables in how the cars look, but they're also far cheaper (45 percent) than the current IndyCars are. There's already interest from teams/drivers to get in the series because the costs are more contained.

More to the point, manufacturers are ready to jump back in because Indy cars are going back to turbo engines. IndyCar has been a spec series for several years now with Honda engines and Dallara chassis. Next year, Lotus and Chevrolet are jumping back in.

And they should be a helluva lot safer too. There will be a device on the back of the cars next year that is intended to keep them on the ground. One year too late, sadly.

IndyCar still has problems. Attendance sucks at too many tracks. Many traditional Indy ovals (Phoenix, Michigan) are verboten (and should be) because NASCAR's ISC ownership forks them over on lack of promotion. I love road course racing, but the road courses Indy chooses to go to suck (cough, Sonoma and Mid-Ohio).

Drivers don't have national name recognition and never will in the same way they did in the 80s and early 90s, but some have been running long enough to be known. Dario Franchitti and Helio Castroneves aren't unknown and they're not gimmicks either, both win races. It doesn't help that recent title contenders -- Scott Dixon and Will Power jump to mind -- have been as milquetoast as it gets.

 

[93Devil]

Should Indy cars just fall into line with cycling, tennis, rugby, cricket and soccer as sports that are just much bigger world wide than here and just accept this instead of microscoping it to death?

 

[HanSenSE]

At times it seems like IndyCar is like the LPGA. They'll have a race, then disappear for a few weeks, and the casual viewer loses interest. I understand its different from NASCAR due to costs, but NASCAR does have that weekly continuity.