Horrendous Indy car crash in Vegas -- Update: RIP Dan Wheldon

[qtlaw]

Indy road racing has always seemed to me to be an oxymoron. Indy stood for high speed, banked racing. Road racing means no passing, slow racing (I know F1 is huge in Europe and they road race).

 

[Bubbler]

Indy road racing has always seemed to me to be an oxymoron. Indy stood for high speed, banked racing. Road racing means no passing, slow racing (I know F1 is huge in Europe and they road race).

Why does Indy stand for banked racing when Indianapolis itself hardly has any banking at all in comparison to other ovals?

That oval-only ship sailed 40 years ago. IndyCar has been splitting road courses and ovals since the 70s. Ask Tony George how having an all-oval series went. And also, ask the former CART owners how going all-road course went too.

Balance is the desired result.

 

[murphyc]

IndyCar does have a glimmer of hope next season...the CAR part of its name. IIRC, there are new engine and body combos coming, which should help to make it far less homogeneous than NASCAR is at the moment.

In 2012 all cars will have the same new bodies. Different bodies have been pushed back to 2013. There will be different engines next year but everyone will have the same bodies. New cars can't hurt because IndyCar has been a spec series since 2006.

 

[murphyc]

IndyCar will survive for the same reason it survived in the early years: the Indy 500.
Also, recall the ratings spike NASCAR had post-Dale Earnhardt Sr.: people who weren't fans previously wanted to see what this whole NASCAR thing was about because the news of Earnhardt's death was everywhere. Big difference is the 2001 Daytona 500 started the season and there was a race the following week; Wheldon's death came in the finale of a series that doesn't race again for about six months.

A lot of other factors went into the post-Earnhardt ratings spike, most importantly that Fox was promoting the shirt out of the series on its other properties, namely MLB and the NFL, before Earnhardt died. And the whole Junior-and-Kevin-Harvick-taking-the-mantle story line. Nothing remotely close to that here.

I wasn't pointing to Earnhardt's death as the only reason for a ratings spike, sorry if it appeared that way. It was just one factor. Mainstream newscasts, papers and magazines played it up big, including the cover of Time. I honestly don't know if there's a way to measure how many people tuned into the NASCAR race at Rockingham the next week due to hearing about Earnhardt's death, but I've got to think some people were new fans tuning in because they'd heard about the death. IndyCar won't get any such spike because of the long off-season.
MMII is exactly right, Wheldon's name doesn't have the resonance with the casual fan as Earnhardt. Plus, at the time of his death Earnhardt had just started associations with national names like Oreo, Hershey's, Motorola and Sonic. I had seen the name of Wheldon's sponsor for several years but had no idea what it was until reading about it post-Indy win.

 

[murphyc]

Not that it's relevant in any way really, but can one of you guys offer me some perspective of how big Wheldon was in the sport? Is this like, say, Aaron Rodgers dying? Someone young and extremely talented who has already accomplished a ton and expected to accomplish a lot more? Or is this like Sidney Crosby dying? He's one of the few IndyCar drivers I could name, but I'm just curious what he meant to the sport. Obviously seemed like a very nice guy from what I'm reading.

Big as in a two-time winner of the biggest race in the series, the Indianapolis 500-Mile Race, and one of the Big Four in world racing (along with Daytona 500, Grand Prix of Monaco and the 24 Hours of LeMans).

Ok, but you need to understand that means very little to me. I'm hoping someone can help me put this into perspective (and I'm asking this respectfully) by comparing to a sport I might follow. Is this like losing Lionel Messi? Is it like LeBron James died? He was obviously a huge deal in the sport. Was he the best driver in the entire thing? Was he one of the three or four best? This obviously is different than losing Dale Earnhardt, which people said was like Michael Jordan. He was only 33. I imagine he had plenty of brilliant racing ahead of him. That's why I offered up Aaron Rodgers. Bad comparison? Good?

It's hard to compare. Since Wheldon didn't have a full-time ride this year, but had one as recently as last year, think of a veteran and good, but not all-time great QB a bit past his prime that signs up as a mid-season pick-up in the NFL, wins a must-win playoff game, and who had glory in his past.

I dunno, maybe Randall Cunningham with the Vikings in '98?

Bubbler, why does a two-time Indy winner not have a full-time ride? I apologize in advance for my ignorance.

Maybe Bubbler will have a different take, but in my mind there were two reasons. First, Wheldon hadn't been able to bring any (or, enough) sponsorship dollars...which can be a pretty big deal in open wheel. Second, he wasn't a particularly good road course driver. The series is split between both disciplines & underfunded teams tend to hire specialists for each type of track. Or, in the case of Sarah Fisher's team, for example, only run one type of track.

In addition, the season had already started when Indy took place. Penske and Ganassi weren't going to fire a driver mid-season to sign a driver who struggled on road courses. Wheldon wasn't going to take just any ride, since he didn't want to damage his reputation by posting subpar results in subpar equipment.
Also, Wheldon had been with Ganassi three years (2006-08) but didn't have the great results everyone expected, especially in 2008 when his teammate won the title. There was an ugly breakup and Wheldon landed at Panther Racing for two years, a definite step down. Aside from back-to-back seconds at Indy, that relationship didn't yield much.
Add that to the factors Layman mentioned and Wheldon was on the outside looking in. I thought he was excellent as a TV commentator and he was poised to take over Danica's ride at Andretti, which is probably about the third-best IndyCar team.

 

[murphyc]

Jimmie Johnson apparently is now an open-wheel expert. He seems to think the Indy 500 should go away, at least as an IndyCar race.
http://www.indystar.com/article/20111017/SPORTS0107/111017015/NASCAR-champ-Jimmie-Johnson-says-IndyCar-should-quit-racing-ovals

Seriously, Jimmie? :

 

[Double J]

Did he say anything that was incorrect?

In particular, was this incorrect?

"Their average was 225? I've never been 225 mph in my life - and that's their average around an oval. They are brave men and women that drive those things," Johnson said. "There's very little crumple zone around the driver, it's an open cockpit and then you add open wheels - it's just creating situations to get the car off the ground at a high rate of speed. And you can't control the car when it's off the ground."

I'm sorry, but 225 mph is way too fast for cars like that. Johnson is right.

 

[westcoastvol]

If you think 225 these days is bad, consider the days when they drove in cars where they sat in the middle just as they do now, but on the left and right sides, drivers were surrounded by their gas tanks.

 

[HanSenSE]

Now I think I'm gonna be a little sicker about this whole thing. One of the first things I see in my email box is a release from "Extra!" boasting of its exclusive interview with Wheldon ... sent less than six hours after he was pronounced!

Apologies to those on this board in flackery (hey, you're on this board, you're a person with good taste), but I think this is a big too ghoulish. Anyone in my area want to see this? As the saying goes, check local listings.

 

[wicked]

Sir Jackie came out and hit the IRL pretty hard, as did Mark Blundell.

http://edition.cnn.com/2011/10/17/sport/motorsport/motorsport-f1-stewart-wheldon/

http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/local-national/uk/british-driver-a-true-champion-16064799.html

 

[derwood]

Scheckter's dad absolutely slammed IRL.

 

[playthrough]

Did he say anything that was incorrect?

In particular, was this incorrect?

"Their average was 225? I've never been 225 mph in my life - and that's their average around an oval. They are brave men and women that drive those things," Johnson said. "There's very little crumple zone around the driver, it's an open cockpit and then you add open wheels - it's just creating situations to get the car off the ground at a high rate of speed. And you can't control the car when it's off the ground."

I'm sorry, but 225 mph is way too fast for cars like that. Johnson is right.

They've been going that fast at the 500 for many years. So they're supposed to dial it back now? What's the limit? 220? 215? 200?

Johnson really should know better than to say IndyCars shouldn't race on "any ovals." Indy is different from Milwaukee, which is different from Vegas, which is different from Iowa. What killed Dan Wheldon was a death-wish formula that the series had, until yesterday, dodged for years: banked mid-length ovals with cars featuring massive downforce and inadequate horsepower, resulting in high-speed packs. The formula is what needs to be fixed. Saying "all oval racing should end" isn't the answer.