Hot Stove Thread

[PhilaYank36]

Blue Jays might be dealing Alex Rios for either Matt Cain or Tim Lincecum. Apparently the ball is in San Fran's court.

http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/7528844?MSNHPHMA

 

[beefncheddar]

Am I missing something? Why in the world would SF be looking to trade AWAY good, young pitching?

 

[Chi City 81]

Am I missing something? Why in the world would SF be looking to trade AWAY good, young pitching?

Because they have a shirt-ton of it. What they don't have are good, young position players.

 

[wickedwritah]

But if the Mets decided to get rid of David Wright, Jose Reyes, Carlos Beltran and John Maine along with any hope of competing year after year -- like Pittsburgh's done with Barry Bonds, Jason Bay (presumably), Jason Kendall (he was good at one time, Cubs fans), Jason Schmidt, Brian Giles and Tim Wakefield -- I'd begin to lose any hope in that franchise.

I'll defend Cam Bonifay on the Wakefield move. Twelve years ago, when he was signed by the Sox, no one ever saw this run happening. Yeah, knuckle-ballers may be able to hold on forever, but I can guarantee you, no one ever thought the guy would win 10 games in a Sox uniform, never mind 100-plus. He seemed like a one-year (1992) rookie wonder.

 

[shotglass]

Rumblings:
Jason Bay and Ronny Paulino to Cleveland for Franklin Gutierrez, Kelly Shoppach, and Adam Miller.

So, now Franklin Gutierrez, Kelly Shoppach and Adam Miller get the opportunity to have their careers derailed ...

 

[93Devil]

If you are from Pittsburgh, you root for the hometown teams.

I don't want to thread jack, but thats the way it is.

I have a buddy who is a big Yankees fan, season ticket holder, and when Dale Sveum was signed by the Yanks, they used him as a batting practice pitcher. For Pittsburgh, he was one of the better hitters and a platoon starter at first base.

Let's Go Bucs!!!

 

[mike311gd]

But if the Mets decided to get rid of David Wright, Jose Reyes, Carlos Beltran and John Maine along with any hope of competing year after year -- like Pittsburgh's done with Barry Bonds, Jason Bay (presumably), Jason Kendall (he was good at one time, Cubs fans), Jason Schmidt, Brian Giles and Tim Wakefield -- I'd begin to lose any hope in that franchise.

I'll defend Cam Bonifay on the Wakefield move. Twelve years ago, when he was signed by the Sox, no one ever saw this run happening. Yeah, knuckle-ballers may be able to hold on forever, but I can guarantee you, no one ever thought the guy would win 10 games in a Sox uniform, never mind 100-plus. He seemed like a one-year (1992) rookie wonder.

I certainly didn't band on him pitching into his 40s, either, but it just seems to happen all too often with Pittsburgh. It's just sad.

 

[spnited]

Am I missing something? Why in the world would SF be looking to trade AWAY good, young pitching?

Because they have NO hitters anywhere in the organization.

 

[Songbird]

Just caught the Tigers' purchase of Cabrera and Willis. Holy crap. Going to be an interesting season in Motown.

 

[outofplace]

Ugh....

Nothing like rebuilding again. Giving up on 2008 as the snow falls in 2007.

I would wait until may or June when the Bucs are dead in the water and hopefully Jason will be having a better season . He should merit a top-25 prospect at least, and I do not think Cleveland is giving up a ton for him. I could be wrong on that, though.

Devil, riddle me this: Honestly, how do Pirates fans, you specifically, still root for Pittsburgh? The Pirates have 15 straight losing seasons and haven't sniffed 80 wins since a 79-83 campaign in 1997. Even worse, they've made almost no effort at getting better.

I'd like to tell you I'd still root for the Mets after 15 consecutive awful seasons, and I think I would. But that answer might change if I saw top prospect after top prospect get shuffled off around the league. I can take a Scott Kazmir or Lastings Milledge trade; you never really know if they're going to pan out. But if the Mets decided to get rid of David Wright, Jose Reyes, Carlos Beltran and John Maine along with any hope of competing year after year -- like Pittsburgh's done with Barry Bonds, Jason Bay (presumably), Jason Kendall (he was good at one time, Cubs fans), Jason Schmidt, Brian Giles and Tim Wakefield -- I'd begin to lose any hope in that franchise.

I've always said I respect the heck out of Pirates fans who still root for that franchise. But I find it hard to believe anyone still has hope. Ever.

I agree with your premise. heck, it is exactly why I have zero emotional investment in the Pirates. I still pay attention and I still get annoyed when they give talent away for nothing. But I just can't bring myself to really care.

Your list could use some work. Bonds obviously belongs. So does Schmidt. Doug Drabek should be on there, too. He won a Cy Young award in 1990 and had a great year in '92. He and Bonds both left as free agents after that season.

If you ever wonder why that Game 7 loss to the Braves in '92 is so vivid for Pirates fans, that's why. We knew Bonds and Drabek were gone and the ride was over. It was going to get ugly, though I didn't realize quite how ugly.

Kendall, Giles and Wakefield were different stories. The problem with Kendall wasn't getting rid of him. It was giving him an obscene contract. It was addition by subtraction when they finally got rid of him.

Wakefield had been terrible for two years when they cut him loose. They gave up too soon, but it wasn't a money thing.

The Giles deal was motivated by money, but they got a great return on him -- Bay and Oliver Perez. If only they hadn't been too stupid to hang on to Perez.

Aramis Ramirez was the truly offensive trade. He was making about $6 million a year. Not cheap, but not outrageous. He was finally putting all his prodigious talent together and becoming a top-flight third basemen. But ownership decided to purge payroll immediately and everybody knew it, taking away any leverage they had in trade talks. They gave away Ramirez and Kenny Lofton for nothing. Every single player they got in that deal was gone by the end of the following season.

Compared to that, getting Adam Miller, Kelly Shoppach and Franklin Gutierrez for Bay and Paulino is a thing of beauty.

 

[mike311gd]

The point remains the same, though: Pittsburgh dishes out fistfuls of young talent each year, and most of them strictly for financial reasoning. The front-office idiots -- much like the ones in Florida, minus the success -- seemingly refuse to compete. And when you can't compete in the weakest division in the National League, if not all of baseball, there's a problem.

It's much more than being impatient. It's a disgrace for a franchise, especially one with 125 years of history, to give away each season in December.

 

[zeke12]

Not to mention the waste of a fantastic ballpark.