I’m a cop. If you don’t want to get hurt, don’t challenge me.

[doctorquant]

I think we can all agree that Dunkin Donuts creamer being sold in grocery stores these days abso-forkin-lutely sucks.

 

[Songbird]

I think we can agree that coffee with cream and sugar sucks.

 

[Baron Scicluna]

Since we're still talking about policy failures, and because I brought up the suburban model as part of it, I submit this, which illustrates the larger problem with Ferguson in general:

http://www.strongtowns.org/journal/2014/8/25/stroad-nation.html#.U_tphmO_USw

If you live in Ferguson, you are essentially forced to drive for your employment and your daily needs. That is the way the city was designed. There was no thought given to the notion that people there might not always be prosperous, that they might desire to – or have an urgent need to – get around without an automobile. When you look through the city's planning documents, you see that walking/biking infrastructure still primarily means recreation, not transportation, despite the obvious desperate need for options.

Unfortunately, nothing I've brought up here is really unique to Ferguson. All of our auto-oriented places are somewhere on the predictable trajectory of growth, stagnation and decline.

...

We're entering a really dangerous phase of this Suburban Experiment. While we once believed that the path to prosperity was the "American Dream", a house in the suburbs and an ownership society (FDR saw this as a social equity issue as did GWB), it is now evident that this approach creates poverty. It not only creates it, it locks it into place in a self-reinforcing cycle. Like I've said before, how we respond to this is the social challenge of this generation.

But, isn't this part of the policy failure?

These communities were built around the car. The giant housing communities came later.

Brown apparently lived in one of two big housing communities according to the LA Times:

Brown stayed at Canfield with friends and, earlier this year, with his grandmother at the adjacent Northwinds apartments.

Why are we building low income housing where there aren't jobs, and there isn't a public transportation infrastructure?

And, here's another question:

What if instead of going to school for heating and cooling, Big Mike, Dorian Johnson, uncle Bernard had pooled their money, and bought a beat up old passenger van, and had filled a community need by starting a "Dollar Van" service?

http://www.theatlantic.com/national/archive/2011/10/the-illegal-private-bus-system-that-works/246166/

All day and night, they would drive up and down West Florissant Avenue, and would make stops at Canfield and Northwinds, and other housing communities.

For just a dollar or two, the residents of these communities would have reliable transportation to commercial areas where jobs were.

Do you think the city, with all it's regulations would celebrate, and promote this new service, or do you think they would move to shut it down?

If the government would let/help them, the community could come up with solutions to these problems. But, our public policy often creates roadblocks to these solutions.

The story says he is insured, but how? As a regular personal vehicle,or as a glorified taxi service? What would happen if there was a fatal crash with one of those vans? Would there be enough insurance? Story doesn't say.

 

[Boom_70]

I think we can agree that coffee with cream and sugar sucks.

Not to mention unhealthy.

A flaw of DD coffee is that it does not hold up served black.

 

[YankeeFan]

Maybe this should go in its own thread, but consider this: You have a guy with a high school diploma who was a B/C average in math and English but has a good work ethic and is willing to learn the basics of running your own business, and decides he may want to open a doughnut shop in town...

...he'll need $500,000 to open a Dunkin Donuts franchise!

I work with Dunkin Donuts franchisees every day, and you couldn't be more wrong, or more naive.

Here's the story of Dunkin Donuts in Chicago:

http://www.entrepreneur.com/article/61686

So many of the franchisees I work with started out as immigrants working as hourly employees, at low wages.

They proved themselves. They became managers. Then they became operating partners.

Family members have pooled money. They've gotten other family members involved. They save all of their money to open up the next franchise.

I really forking wish that some of you would talk to a small business owner sometime.

Dunkin' Donuts has turned hardworking immigrant entrepreneurs into millionaires.

What about those poor orphans who don't have families?

Let's work off of the basic premise that Dunkin' Donuts franchises make money -- because they do.

Now, if you had worked at a Dunkin' for several years, including the last two as a manager at a successful store, and you had the opportunity to purchase your own franchise, don't you think you would be able to raise capital?

Wouldn't you invest in this guy if you could?

If you're Amrit Patel, wouldn't you invest?

No one is going to invest a couple of hundred grand in Jay Farrar to open a doughnut shop, because he doesn't have experience running a doughnut shop, and would likely lose his investors money. But, and experienced manager, would likely make money for his investors.

 

[Baron Scicluna]

Maybe this should go in its own thread, but consider this: You have a guy with a high school diploma who was a B/C average in math and English but has a good work ethic and is willing to learn the basics of running your own business, and decides he may want to open a doughnut shop in town...

...he'll need $500,000 to open a Dunkin Donuts franchise!

I work with Dunkin Donuts franchisees every day, and you couldn't be more wrong, or more naive.

Here's the story of Dunkin Donuts in Chicago:

http://www.entrepreneur.com/article/61686

So many of the franchisees I work with started out as immigrants working as hourly employees, at low wages.

They proved themselves. They became managers. Then they became operating partners.

Family members have pooled money. They've gotten other family members involved. They save all of their money to open up the next franchise.

I really forking wish that some of you would talk to a small business owner sometime.

Dunkin' Donuts has turned hardworking immigrant entrepreneurs into millionaires.

What about those poor orphans who don't have families?

Let's work off of the basic premise that Dunkin' Donuts franchises make money -- because they do.

Now, if you had worked at a Dunkin' for several years, including the last two as a manager at a successful store, and you had the opportunity to purchase your own franchise, don't you think you would be able to raise capital?

Wouldn't you invest in this guy if you could?

If you're Amrit Patel, wouldn't you invest?

No one is going to invest a couple of hundred grand in Jay Farrar to open a doughnut shop, because he doesn't have experience running a doughnut shop, and would likely lose his investors money. But, and experienced manager, would likely make money for his investors.

Depends on how successful the store was before the manager got there. Did he increase profits exponentially? Was he taking over an existing store that had been around for decades and had been well established by the people who came before him? Where is the location of the new store?

He only has two years of managerial experience. Unless there was something that showed that he was the greatest Dunkin' Donuts manager alive, there would be considerable reasons to give me pause in investing in a store just because a guy had a couple of years experience managing a store that was already successful.

 

[YankeeFan]

You'd probably be a really antsy investor Baron.

We'll look for funding elsewhere.

 

[Baron Scicluna]

Hey, if you want to throw your money down the drain on an unknown quantity, be my guest.

 

[JayFarrar]

I suspect the franchise fee wasn't $500,000 in 1977 or whenever it was when he first opened up.

The reality is, it is much more expensive and a much harder task to open a franchise of anything now.

Bullshirt.

You don't know what you're talking about, and I'm guessing you couldn't be bothered to read the article I linked to.

In 1973, the franchise cost $71,500. That's $383,668.36 in today's dollars.

http://www.usinflationcalculator.com/

That's not quite what it costs now, but it wasn't cheap. The article says he used his savings, plus $10,000 he borrowed from friends to make a $30,000 down payment.

The numbers are all higher today, but they work the exact same way. And, it's happening today. I know these people.

Also, Dunkin' Donuts is a proven commodity. Dunkin franchisees make money. This is known. It's proven. Of course it takes money to open a Dunkin.

When Mr. Patel bought his first franchise, it wasn't a proven concept outside of New England.

There are hundreds of franchise opportunities today. Not all of them cost $500,000, but cheaper ones come with more risk.

LOL.

Did you read the strong towns article? Do you believe that your personal anecdotes are superior to data? Do you believe that one persons experience in Chicago with a dunkin donuts identical to the experience a person might have in California or Tennessee?

Or are you simply talking out of your ass?

If you had read the article you would have seen that dunkin donuts requires franchisees to have a net worth of $500,000 with liquid assets of $250,000 that's in addition to whatever the fees are to buy a franchise.

While it isn't clear for dd but true for others is that you need recommendations from other franchisees to buy in.

And, just for the record, my family owned a small business but it wasn't a one man coffee pot repair shop so maybe it doesn't meet your lofty standards.

 

[YankeeFan]

LOL.

Did you read the strong towns article? Do you believe that your personal anecdotes are superior to data? Do you believe that one persons experience in Chicago with a dunkin donuts identical to the experience a person might have in California or Tennessee?

Or are you simply talking out of your ass?

If you had read the article you would have seen that dunkin donuts requires franchisees to have a net worth of $500,000 with liquid assets of $250,000 that's in addition to whatever the fees are to buy a franchise.

While it isn't clear for dd but true for others is that you need recommendations from other franchisees to buy in.

OK. Let's try this again.

For many of these franchisees, they are a minority partner in their first deal. Someone like Amrit Patel, or some other current franchisee backs them.

By the time they do their second or third deal, they have the money to be the majority investor, and they bring in others as minority investors.

There are over 400 Dunkin' Donuts locations in Chicagoland. The article I linked to is from 2003, but I would guess that 90% of them are still owned by Gujaratis and Pakistanis, and almost all of them can be traced to Mr. Patel's original franchise.

He brought in other owners, who brought in other owners, and so on.

 

[Baron Scicluna]

We can say with certainty that Dunkin' Brands is a well-oiled operation. Franchisees that joined the brand in the 80s and 90s have made a significant amount of money. But now that build-out costs are higher than 20 years ago, the average return on investment is much lower. Not to mention that franchisee gross profit continues to move downwards. It would scare me if investors turned a blind eye to what is really going on.

http://www.businessinsider.com/is-dunkin-the-right-investment-2011-7

 

[YankeeFan]

Seriously Baron, no one wants your investment. You're a downer.